SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard. Each week, Amber dances in conversation with inspirational leaders out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly created life of service to others. And now, here is your host.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Welcome back, everyone, to What Would Amber Do? I am so excited this morning to have the opportunity to have Sandy Ludwig on the show. Sandy has worked in the field of health and well-being for 25 years as a music therapist, performer, and program consultant. She is a serial entrepreneur having created Music for Life, a professional private practice providing music therapy and specialized music programs, and co-founded Three Silver Lilacs, a business that provides style architecture and wellness workshops and programs for women. Sandy's commitment is that people honor and care for one another. Sandy, thank you so much for being on the show this morning.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Thank you, Amber. Good morning. Good morning to all the listeners.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Good morning, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

Whatever today it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Good morning. It's funny, like it's not always good morning, right? Depending on whether you're a morning person. Some people are like, oh, it's morning. But yes, good morning. Sandy, I'd love to for you to share with us a little bit about, you know, like what was your journey like where through health and well-being and and the work that you've done, you know, to creating these two businesses that some people might be like, music, style architecture, like how to how how what's the journey been like to get to today?

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Yes, how did this happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

How did this happen? I like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Thank you for asking. I've always been a music girl, like since I was a child. Um, my mother played the piano, and she tells me I couldn't keep my hands off it. She couldn't, she couldn't practice without me coming and getting my little paws on the keys. So music was also always a natural experience for me. I was just driven to play or sing or dance, even to records as a kid. Did you ever do that, Amory? You put the record on and you danced around the basement. Something like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

I don't remember dancing around the basement, but I do uh have memories of like my dad. Like my dad and I were not that close when I was growing up, but my dad was part of why I love music. And we used to listen to like records of the Everly Brothers and Kat Stevens. Um, so yes, I think lots of people have fond memories of records. I mean, there's a bit of a nostalgia there.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Absolutely, a lot of nostalgia. So I was always into music and knew that that's that's what I wanted to do. It wasn't really like a conscious decision, it just appeared, right? It was just something I always knew. And when I was in high school, I went to summer camp and they had a special needs program. And there were campers uh with Down syndrome, autism, they had uh developmental delays, and exception, they were exceptional people, exceptional campers, and I was so drawn to being with them. And I found out about this thing called music therapy from my mother, and it was inclusive of music and psychology. And it was it was like that's what I want to do. That's what I want to do, and so I went to school for music therapy to discover you know the different ways that music supports people in their development. So it was just such a natural fit. I got to play music, dance with people, uh, like play instruments, write music, listen to music, and be with people in the midst of some sort of developmental cause. And and to facilitate that, it felt like the thing that music was meant to do. Like music so naturally draws people together. And so to to bring music to a circumstance or situation and support someone was like magic for me. And magic for for the people that I was interacting with. So music therapy has always been an expression for me. It's been a way to enjoy music and to connect with people and also you know make a difference and allow the music to make the natural difference.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

It really does. Like, so there's so much, there's so much in what you said that I want to respond to. One, like, one thing that's right there to say is you know, you said it wasn't so much a choice as kind of like a, you know, it just kind of called to you. And I think we've been having some conversations recently about like this idea of like when life knocks for you, when there's a knock, right? Like, and and where of the where of the times in your life where you've answered the knock and and and the knock doesn't seem to go away when we don't answer it, right? Like it keeps knocking. And and you know, I know stories of people who there were things that they really wanted to do and they didn't for whatever reason. And then, you know, 20 years later, 30 years later, that that's still knocking to you because there's something that wants to get, I think there's something that wants to get expressed through you that's just not going to stop trying to be expressed until you express it, right? And and so I really hear that um the the coming together, like discovering music therapy and the coming together of these things that being with people who are exceptional and and really finding ways to to care for them along with your love of music and dance, and you know, like that of course, it's just kind of like uh natural, if that makes any sense at all. And um, so thank you for sharing that and thank you for saying that because I looked in my own life at different times where it's like where I've answered the knock, and even things that you know my listeners, I think, know this, or maybe they don't, you know, it's interesting the stuff that gets shared in a podcast uh as you reveal parts of your life over time with your audience. You know, I had my eldest son when I was 16, and I didn't see that until recently that that was actually a knock. Like I wasn't planning on having children. And if I hadn't, you know, there were circumstances that arose and I got pregnant with Matthew, and I may not have ever been a mother if that hadn't happened, and if I hadn't answered that knock, and and wow, like how different, like not better or worse, but how different would my life be? Like one of my greatest joys has been being a mom. So I'm present to like being in that inquiry of like, where are you answering the knock and where have you answered the knock and where where did you not? And thank thankfully you answered that knock.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Thank you. And and I appreciate what you just shared about being a mother. Uh, one of the things I get out of work, I specialize in pediatrics right now, and I don't have children of my own. I've never given birth, I've never adopted a child. And I get to be motherly in ways that I wouldn't have expected. And I get to be with mothers and I get to be with fathers and I get to be with caregivers and families. So it's just another way to create myself as a mother.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

When I want to and when it works, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah, it's beautiful. I think there's lots like there's lots of ways caring for each other can be expressed and mothering, fathering, like, you know, that's one of the ways that we care for other people, right? And it doesn't, I don't know that that's necessarily it's that's not a function of blood, or you know, it's like it's it's a choice that you know, and and and a relationship with someone else that that kind of occurs. Um yeah, so beautiful. It's interesting because I like when you talk about music, and and I um music is one of the ways that I I access the eternal. Like music is one of the ways that I access all of it in life, you know, the divine. And um, and I know a big part of your music practice is like through drumming. And and I there's something very, I don't know, cleansing is the right word, but there's something very, you know, soulful. There's almost at a um if not even at a conscious level, there's a there's a band from Poland, a group of women who do drumming circles. And uh I think they're a band name I can't, I'm probably gonna really not pronounce it right now, but Laboratorium Penske. And it uh, you know, after the show, if you're interested, I'll send you. But I remember once I was when I discovered them, I was working at the airport of the time, Sandy, and I literally listened to the same song. And I have no idea what these women are saying and it when they're singing, but the drumming, like it was almost like it was therapeutic. And I listened to it for literally the same song on repeat for half a morning while I was working at my desk. So talk to me a little bit more, uh, you know, from your own experience, like about music as like that that therapeutic quality of music and of the drumming, like because you you like go to West Africa, right? You travel to, yeah, like I'm I'm curious to know more.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Right. Um there's something about music in history. If you, you know, if you go back in history, every culture has music, and it's tied uh with with religion and spirituality and healing in just about every culture. And and it's like you said, you don't have to know what the words mean. You don't have to know the language, the music is the language, and and it's universal. So there's really not much to do other than be with the music and create it. And in terms of drumming, there's uh there is a natural effortless connection for many people, and there are uh philosophies and theories that it it could be from the womb. There's the heartbeat from the very beginning, there's rhythm and sound in the womb. It's a very noisy place, the womb.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Really? I always kind of thought of it as like peaceful.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

It's peaceful. Well, it's white noise. There's a lot of there's all that blood flowing, there's the heartbeat. It's it's a very it is a very comfortable, peaceful place, and there's a lot of sound in there. So so we come into the world with sound. And I can't quite explain what happened to me the first time I attended a drum class. It it was just everything disappeared except what was happening with the people I was drumming with in that moment. And at the beginning, like the concentration required, I I just didn't have the capacity to think of anything else. No problems, no circumstance, no what's going on tomorrow. Just what is my body engaging in, whom I engaging with, and the experience of it. And so I was hooked. I knew, I knew right off the bat I was gonna be a lifer. I was gonna be a lifer. So this is uh African hand drumming too. So there's like the physical element, you know, my body was just fully engaged, and and then the music was just so spectacular. And uh I was in awe of my teacher who is uh Griote, which is a master drummer from West Africa, and the music was just riveting. And again, it wasn't really a choice, it just that's how it was gonna be. I'm gonna now I drum. Now I drum.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

It's so great. We have those moments in life, right? Where we just make like it's just like this is how it's gonna be, right? It's almost like I hear a bit of a like a surrendering to something.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah. And so you you I think you take a trip to West Africa. Well, I don't know if you've been able to go since COVID, but you travel to West Africa on a regular basis to train and and yeah, so I do go every year.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

I I did actually go this December.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

There was a pocket of time where travel and uh COVID was not an issue where I was going. So I actually had a COVID vacation in December. And uh yeah, so I go to train with my teacher, Amadou Kianu, and his family and be immersed in the culture where the music came from. And uh we get to play at events where the music was created. So, you know, there are different rhythms for different events, and and so we get to be immersed in that. So I get to drum at a wedding, playing the rhythms that that were created to honor the the wedding and the people and the love and the commitment. And uh you know, played at baptism ceremonies, uh, I've played at funeral service in Canada. So it's that connection, I think uh when you ask me kind of how did I get here, there are those holy moments or those spiritual moments are those moments where there's no difference between me and you when we're in the music. And those moments where if we're drumming together, you say something to me through the drum. And I get to say something back to you through the drum. And like when you said you didn't you didn't know what language the band was speaking, it doesn't matter anymore.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Yeah. So true.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Yeah. So in my work, you know, work with a lot of uh people who can't speak, like literally they can't speak, or their bodies don't move the way that we're used to moving our bodies. So the music is the access or expressing and connecting with somebody else. So there's just I'm just gonna stop thinking about it, only because it just feels like what I was meant to do.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

When you get to spend your life fulfilling on the reason you exist, like you know, I really I do believe that we were all created for a purpose. I think everything in every living thing serves a purpose, you know, and and I think many human beings perhaps go their whole life not knowing what that thing is, but when you when you're living inside of it, it just it's a different experience of living. And I and and there's like a there's a peacefulness and at ease about being with you, Sandy. And I think that's part of it, right? Because it's like every day, the the very act of living is an expression of of why you were why you're here. And that's um it's a beautiful space to be in with someone, you know. Uh so thank you for sharing all of that. It's interesting when you were saying about the different rhythms, like I would never have thought about that. But when I think about like the like if I could relate it to my own experience with music, um, you know, we have different songs or types of songs for different emotions or like different events, like there's the types of music that you play at weddings, there's love songs, there's breakup songs, there's like songs that you play at funerals, right? There's like, and so yeah, we do have different, and and of course, people have different tastes of, you know, and different preferences. But there are like there are type, you know, if you went to a funeral and someone started playing, you know, like some heavy metal or like, you know, unless it's like was in line with what the person really wanted and who they were, some 80s hairband or ACDC, or it would be weird for people. They would be like, you know, and then like perhaps you go to a wedding and and I don't know, they're playing something equally like because there are certain rhythms to our life that and and plays and and those. So I I wouldn't I didn't think about it that way until you said like there are different rhythms for different events. And when we go to those types of events, we play those kinds of rhythms. I think that that is perhaps you know somewhere to look. I don't know, but maybe that's there's something universal to that about human beings, right? That there are there are different rhythms that we associate with different times in life, and that's kind of neat.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

It's very neat. I I love how you said that because your rhythm is your rhythm, and I have a rhythm, and together we have something else that's a combination of both of ours, you know, and life there is a rhythm to life. It's you know, everybody has a soundtrack.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Mine was written by Pink.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah, fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

There's something about Pink as an artist. I um we're kind of the same age and we've been through some of the same experiences in life. So just like it seemed, and of course, my your brain, you know, you and I know that our brains associate things and make up associations, whether it's true or not. And it doesn't really matter. I think that's just part of the experience of living life, but it just always seemed like she wrote the exact music I needed to hear when I was going through something, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Yes. And that makes a difference. I mean, there aren't a lot of people who don't connect to music in some way.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah. I love what you said about like, you know, the the people that you work with. You know, I on the show last week I had a a woman who's, you know, Denise, who's connected to committed to providing people a voice. She's been an educator, you know, for most most of her life, was a teacher. And uh, you know, we talked about the impact when children specifically, but really when any of us don't have a voice. And um, and I have thought about it in terms more of like, oh, their voice is suppressed, or they don't feel free to express their voice. But um, there are actually people who can't speak, but that doesn't mean that they don't have something to say or something to express or want to express um into the world. And so really acknowledge you and thank you for being because we know it's it's like vital to what it is to be a human being, to be able to express ourselves. And I hadn't thought about it in terms of well, what about the people who can't express themselves in the way that we would normally express ourselves through words or language, right? So, Sandy, thank you for being someone who who gives access to people to be able to express.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

Yeah, you're well, you're welcome. It's a it's a great pleasure. You know, I learned so much about how to listen because people are like like you said, they are speaking in a way that we're not used to listening to. Someone who's nonverbal is communicating all the time. But but it's very often we're just not listening. And listen can be looking, feeling, holding, and just being.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

And loving it's um you know, inside of your commitment, and you you know, you can kind of hear it. I can hear it, I'm so present to it in and every in just who you are. You know, this idea that people care and honor, you know, one another. Um and this conversation around care has come up a few times for me recently, you know, one like the difference between supporting someone versus caring for them. Like what is that conversation about, right? Um and you know, when I look at kind of the the activities, the things that you're up to in the world, this um, and I know that your silver three silver lilacs um endeavor with your your co-founder, you're I believe you're actually doing work with newcomers coming to Canada. You know, some people will sometimes say to me, like, your business seems a little all over the place. Like, you know, you're you're a consultant, you're a coach, you're you're a trainer, like you do business strategy, but it's like neurolinguistic programming, like, you know, like it's like there's mindset, like what what what's going, you know, what is what is that all about? And I I think, you know, my response is, well, what's it, what, what it's about is that I have a fundamental commitment that people not be stuck in life, that people get to live a created life of their own design. And there's different ways that that gets expressed. Gets expressed through the podcast, it gets expressed through my writing, it gets expressed through, you know, my teaching with my students, like that people have the skills, tools, and awareness to be able to get unstuck and create what they want, right? And and and so I can see how like and I'd like to hear more kind of about the style architecture and the work that you've been doing with newcomers. And but I can see that there's this thread of care that like weaves itself through all of the all of the work that you do.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Yes, it's interesting because as a music therapist and a style architect, automatically it doesn't seem like, well, what's the connection? Like what what has a person do those two different, very different things? And and what um my colleagues and I discovered in Three Silver Lilacs in providing styling services for people, it started out with clothing. But what we noticed when we worked with women was that there was this underlying um current for many women, they didn't like their bodies. You know, they would say things like, I just well, I'm I dress this way because I want to cover up my arms, or I want to cover up my stomach, or I dress this way because I'm so busy caring for my children that I I don't have time to think of myself. And so we really discovered that there was an opportunity to talk about women's well-being, like well-being was the underlying issue that had them not enjoying getting dressed or had them not caring for their bodies. And so style architecture became about creating a foundation of well-being, and that the clothes were really not what we were doing. The clothes were an expression of women's well-being. And so we actually get to create a relationship and so that you have an experience when you're getting dressed. And the experience that's possible is that you're caring and honoring your diversity and who you are, and that your clothes are an expression. So, so for an example, working with newcomers to Canada, they're they're immersed in a brand new culture. We all have a history of of clothing, and we all create what clothing means to us, or sometimes other people create it for us. There's a lot of components, and so in working with newcomers, we get to care for them and say, you know, welcome. And uh we're working through Silver Lalax is working with a non-for-profit agency called New Circles. They're uh a partner we're very excited to be working with, and they support newcomers, and they have a a clothing store and they provide training and community programs for newcomers. So in working with the newcomers, you know, they want to belong. And the agency provides a clothing for free for the family, you know, to say, Welcome here, this is what you need. And as style architects, uh we get to be part of that. And in the workshops we've been providing, we get to listen to what what do newcomers want and what has them feel cared for. And they have questions. We did a workshop about what to wear to a job interview. And this is really important for newcomers, it's really important for everyone. It's a very vulnerable time going to a job interview. I think most people would agree. And if you don't and if you don't know what to wear or what's appropriate in the culture, you know, so this is a really exciting time for us to be able to be there for newcomers, answer their questions, and reassure them that the great thing about Canada is we welcome your diversity and we honor your expression of that you can wear anything you want to in Canada, you know, as long as you're covering the bits. You really, you know, you really can. Now, a job interview may be an exception for some of those things, you know, there are expectations, but we really have found that the well-being piece in terms of how people want to look and how they want to experience being in their clothing was really nothing to do with the clothing. And so the connection between music therapy and three silver lilacs for me is being of service and caring for people. That's the common thread.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Sorry. Common threads is a it's a you know, it's a great pun. Yes, it is. You know, it represents a lot of what we do.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

We so yeah, you know, I um if I look back at my own journey around clothing, you know, I can really see so much of what you shared, you know, for for I've shared this pretty frequently on the show and and publicly, like I really struggled with my self-worth for for much of my life. Uh, you know, and even and and it's so funny because it's so not related to, you know, I've been different sizes in my life, I've I've been thinner, I've been not as thin, like, you know, I've been um I've all of that. And and I look back and it had nothing to do, like my my relationship to myself around my body, around myself as a as a physical, the physicality of myself. Uh even when I was, you know, 12, 13, 14 years old, and you know, by all all societal norms, thin, I I didn't ever have an experience, an embodied experience of being thin. Like I was always, there was always something wrong with my body. To the point where, like, when I was a young woman, I used to look in the mirror and I didn't even see a human being. I just saw a blob. Like that's how, like, that's how um disconnected it was. And and as my body is like, it's almost like I think for for some of us, and and maybe more than some, like, you know, almost being at war with yourself on a physical level. Because there's so much. And I remember someone close to me said once, like, I've never been free to decide for myself whether I liked my body or not, because for my whole life my body's been wrong, because it didn't look like some external, you know, image of what a what the, you know, what the desirable or body is. And and as you get older, you realize it actually really has nothing to do with any of that. Like that's all a that's all created, but it really does impact us in the living of our lives. And I I was in a group, like I was in a course recently, and I was in a breakout group with a number of women, and it was just like wow, like every single woman in that in the in the breakout, regardless of what they look like, their size, like they all dealt with it challenges surrounding their relationship with their bodies. And I was like, this is like this is there is something, and I and I had started reading and I actually put it aside, um, Nail Me the Wolf's book, uh, which I cannot remember the title of right now. And I'm trying to look over my bookshelf to see if it's there. But, you know, talking about, you know, without getting into the politics of all of it, but talking about like as the women's movements moved forward and women became more liberated in in our societies, this real backlash around what we look like and and cosmetics and and clothing, and and and it really has gotten into the DNA. You know, like they were she was saying in the book, um, that women are probably less like like their bodies less now than they did, you know, 50 to 100 years ago before, because there really has, I think, been a real um concentrated, you know, I don't mean to make it sound like a conspiracy theory, but more like a network of conversations that have emerged that have really um impacted the way women view themselves physically.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

Absolutely. Absolutely. And and it's important that we support each other in that process. And I'll also we feel that you know women, men, what whatever you relate to, the binary, um that we can provide a space for all of it and honor honor it. We are more than our bodies. And our bodies uh for me are a gift and something to else to be cared for. So one of the workshops we do uh is called Body Licious. And and we do an exercise that allows everyone to explore their relationship to their body and and see something new to appreciate and honor. And uh our our motto actually is everybody is beautiful. And sometimes that takes some effort for us to create that for ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Yeah, it's almost like an act of rebellion in a world where like there's this like rigid, seemingly rigid, not like that's the truth, but seemingly rigid or like really defined notion of what beautiful is that stares you in the face all the time, right? It's almost like an um an act of rebellion to say, well, no, like I'm gonna choose, like I'm gonna create my body just as it is right now, as um as beautiful. And there's like power in that. I remember in one of the courses I did years ago, I I can't remember, you know, I think I was at a Sunday evening for the Landmark Forum, and and we were doing a the X, there's an exercise for those of you that are not familiar. Landmark's a you know, personal and professional development company that you know I've participated in courses at. And there's this exercise that you do around choice. And I like got like I choose my body. And like, not like as as empowerment, like like that I could choose my body just as it is right now, but also like I chose this, like as a creation based on all of the things I did and I didn't do over periods of time. Like this didn't happen to me. Like, whatever there is about my body that I may be dissatisfied with, you know, I think we all have those bits and pieces of ourselves, you know, regardless. Like I chose that because there were actions I could have taken or not taken, and I took those or I didn't take those actions, right? There's like some real power in being responsible for the relationship that I have with my body and getting that I'm at the source of that. Because I think it becomes really easy to be like, oh, it's out there, right? Like society says a woman's supposed to look or a man's supposed to look, and and I'm not, I'm not that. So like it's like this, you know, that that kind of at the effect of or victim to, you know, whatever narrative. And that narrative has changed, it will change again. You know, if we look back at the history of humanity, what what beauty is is not fixed, it it it evolves and changes over time. Um, but I'm responsible. I'm at the source of the conversation I am about my own body, and and there's something very empowering about that. When you, for me anyway, you know, um, not like that's the truth, but somewhere I invite people to look is like, well, I actually say whatever I say about my body, and then I have an experience of being embodied, but it's not external to me, I'm at the source of that.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Yes, and you'll you'll find what you're looking for depending on what you're focusing on.

unknown 36:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

You know, if you're focused on what you don't like about your body, you're just gonna find what you don't like about your body. And and your body gave you a child.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Three of them.

SPEAKER_03 37:07

Three you know, there's there's so many amazing things that our bodies do that we just forget about. So to choose your focus, that's so powerful, it can really make a difference.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

And then we choose our change our focus, we can honor what we're focusing on. When you put on your clothing, that the experience changes.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

I'm gonna take that on, Sandy. Thank you. I can see how for me, like putting clothes on is just kind of a function of what's society acceptable, right? It's like, oh yeah, I gotta wear, I gotta put the, I've gotta do that, right? Oh, and and then and it becomes this external thing as well, right? It's like, oh, I'm teaching today. Okay, that means I put that clothing on. Like we don't show up to class in a tank top and a because you know, whatever, you know, I think there is a uniform in the professional world, just as you know, for people who work in corporate or you know, just as there are uniforms for people who are police officers. And, you know, so it's like, yeah, I wear that when I teach. Oh, I'm not, I I don't have to be on camera today. Okay, maybe I'll wear my yoga pants today, right? Like, but it's not coming from a like, how do I want to feel today as I go about my day? It's coming from this, like, you know, this is what I need to be appropriate.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Exactly. And that's where we get to choose again. You know, you can you can get dressed and choose to be appropriate. Yes, that's important when you're a teacher that you choose that, and you can choose to be appropriate and elegant or appropriate and rock star. You know, you get to choose.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

So great. I wore my I have this great shirt that says love life on it, and I was feeling like people needed a little more love yesterday. So I put a jacket over it, but I, you know, when I taught last night, I wore my my t-shirt, my red, bright red t-shirt that says love life on it, because I just really felt yesterday. Maybe I needed to experience like you deal with us some things about the current set of circumstances and bumping up against some stuff for myself and the way I saw human beings treating each other. And and I I so maybe I needed to be like channeling and accessing my, you know, the love I have for humanity and and you know, grace. I think, yeah. So thank you. Because that, you know, this conversation has given me a new access to look at how my relationship to clothing and and how I dress myself and and the experience. Um, because I can see it's definitely like just kind of like, oh, check that off the list. I got dressed today. It's not, it's not something I create as an experience.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Amber, thank you for getting dressed today.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

You are so welcome. That's so great. Yeah. Sandy, it was such an honor and a privilege to have this conversation with you. And I just really want to thank you and acknowledge and honor you for first for being someone who's out there in the world, living a created life of your own design and and um following your purpose and being a yes to to to being to caring for people in the in the many different ways in which you care for people. And um thank you for coming here into this space and and sharing the things that matter to you with us and and for just like you follow your heart wherever that takes you. And I think that's uh you know that's special.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Thank you, Amber. It's it's been very much a pleasure. I really appreciate it and um grateful for all the podcasts that you do and and for your listeners and giving me the opportunity to share and be with them as well. Thank you, everyone.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yeah. So right. For those of you listening to the show, you can check out Sandy and all of the incredible things that she's up to in the show notes. And just thank you for participating and being with us in this conversation this week. We'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

All right, bye. Bye, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out whatwoodamberdo.com.