Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard. Each week, Amber dances in conversation with inspirational leaders out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly created life of service to others. And now, here is your host.

Welcome back, everyone, to What Would Amber Do. It is really my privilege this morning to have on the show Deb Rossman. Deb is an international author, entrepreneur, poet. Deb left a successful career in the financial services sector to pursue her love of writing and be a change agent, uplifter, and poet. How incredible. I think you're the first poet I've had on the show. It's so good. Deb's belief is that grieving is universal, but the way we grieve is as individual as a fingerprint. Her commitment for humanity that people know they're not alone. Deb, it's so blessing. It's such a blessing to have you on the show. Thank you for being here.

Amber Howard, I am just beaming to be in your in your space, sharing your aura with you. Your work is so important. And as a person, I just adore you and thank you so much. Such an honor to uh to have this dance with you.

Thank you. Oh, you know, the work you do is so important. And I'm so like, I just I love one of the things I love about the podcast is I get to give people a platform to talk about the things that are important to them. And not just important to them because what you're what you're about, what you're up to, you know, we're we're gonna get into all of that, but like we're helping people, guiding people, giving them tools and awareness to deal with grief is so important to everything as human beings. And so I'm just like I just really acknowledge you, and I'm I'm I'm grateful to have this time and this conversation with you. So tell me a little bit about how you got to be where you are today. Like what what was the journey like? And maybe what was the catalyst for you taking that journey?

I mean, that's such a fair question because as a little girl, as we're dreaming of being ballerinas and the president of the United States and whatever we dream, you know, um, writing writing a book about the grieving process is is not one of the uh the top 10 things that little girls dream of doing. Uh for me, it really all came to a head. I mean, I like to be cheeky. I like, you know, allow me to be a little bit cheeky here regarding grief, regarding death and dying. You know, um, I it's a news flash for some, especially if they're very young. But for you and I, none of us are getting out of here alive.

Yes.

True.

And because of that, because of that, um, you know, in in our lives, we will, you know, as we live long, healthy, fulfilling lives, we are going to experience that and and be thrust into that process or bury it and ignore it. I mean, it's a choice, but we're going to, it's going to happen multiple times throughout our lifetime until we hit our expiration date. You know, I I I um just a a concept here is you know, I I sincerely believe in the spirit, in the soul, our essence. My message uh is that the essence lives on intact, and that's one of the self-soothing techniques that we can talk about later. But you know, we really are, I it's so disrespectful, and that's why I love it so much. We're just walking around here in these meat suits, physical beings having a physical experience, I think some call it the the physical, you know, and so I mean, one thing that I want to establish early on is you know, to be able to delineate between the physical and the non-physical. So for me, when people make that transition, they are transitioning out of physical, which is fun. I'm having a great time, but we eventually try, you know, because they do have expiration dates on them. No one lives forever in this particular vessel, and that's a good thing, I think. Anyway, but we we transition out of the physical and into non-physical, where the grief comes from, where that pain and suffering for those left behind, certainly not for the person who transitioned. I think they go home. And I'm not talking about it from a religious standpoint or anything else. I think we go home. I also think that a good share of what our sparkling essence is, is in the non-physical. And that we that we're here to to live and to you know encounter conflicts and to grow and expand, and that that's part of the big picture. To answer your question, I was um fortunate that I made it to 43 years old before I I lost, you know, a truly, truly significant, nothing against aunties, uncles, grandpas, grandmas, things like that. But I was 43 before I lost a parent, and that was my father. And at that time, um I I was I was daddy's little girl, so I was pretty gutted about the whole thing. And I started to, you know, I mean, I I I walk around wearing my grief as a badge of honor. I wore it like a cloak. And after a few months, I woke up and I'm I'm not one of those gifted mediums. I do believe that there are some real deals out there. I I met one, but I I'm not that person. But I woke up after having had a dream with my father in it, because I think that when we're asleep, we can connect because they're they're still here. That's my that's my big message. Physically they're gone, but they are still here. And I woke up just with the knowing, just this calm knowing that okay, Deb, enough, enough is enough. You know, my father loved to party, my father, you know, uh lived life on his terms and fully. And it's like, this is not the way to honor me. So while I didn't hear anyone speak those words, Deb, this is not the way to honor me. It was a knowing that okay, it was it was time to figure things out and be able to throw the cloak off, retire the badge, and get back in the game. So I started to, you know, I that also when that was happening shortly after my father, uh, my sister passed from a horrific cancer, and after that, a family friend from coronary, and after that, my my most beloved mother, who who really was, it sounds cheesy, but she really was one of my absolute best friends. So I I went through in a fairly short period of time a succession of losing very key people to me, and then throw on top of that my condo burned down. So, you know, I was I was it a I was very much in a free fall, and and so I I knew I needed to stop free falling. And a dear friend of mine had lent me her book, Rhonda Burns The Secret, and that was just my first introduction to law of attraction, and it was resonating with me, and and one of the and I and I really focused on the chapters and and the mentors that comprised that that particular book about how critical it is to find happiness and to be happy in every moment. You know, uh uh certainly another another of my mentors is Eckhart Toll, you know, who the power of now. Now is really all we have. You know, you it it's great to be eager about the future, it's lovely to look back onto fond memories, that's all fabulous. But what we have is right now in front of us. So how can I take being gutted and be happy about it? Now I wasn't looking to, you know, I'm not a I'm not a clinical person, I am not trained in psychology, psychiatry. I I have access to amazing counselors. How do I stop the free fall? Well, for me, you know, and this is one of the techniques that we can talk about more later, but you know, get out in nature, walks in nature, meditation, quiet my mind. Um there's a law of attraction technique, uh, Esther Hicks actually specifically um through her her Abraham entity, and it's and it's um pivoting. You know, you you're you're feeling bad. Can you pivot? Can you pivot that emotion into something less bad? It may not be happy, but less painful. And so I I started for me, it was writing poetry. Um, I I've been writing poems my entire life. I am absolutely stunned and amazed that in this day and age, uh, poets are no longer held on the same platform as as philosophers and great masters. Not that I'm saying that I am, but uh in if you look historically, right? Plato and yeah, let's let's go way back. The the poet had had held a a place of absolutely of wisdom, of love, of esteem. And so that's why this is this is why I approach grief like I approach everything, and it's with my poet's heart. And um so I don't know if that answered your question. So I wrote poems, and then a dear friend of mine who worked at Border Books, if you remember border books, uh, and she she worked there, and um, she said, you know, you really need to put your poems together in a collection because I can't tell you how many people come in asking what we have on grief, and they never had much, and the people did not want the seven stages, you know, they didn't want the clinical, they wanted something like I do. So I I did pull them together, The Grieving Heart, a collection of poetry and prose about lost hope and living. The emphasis is on living, and it and an early reviewer said that they carried around with them it was a companion. And I thought, yeah, yeah, I can't claim the brilliance of having said this is why I did this, but it's true, it it serves as a companion because the process is so utterly personal, you know, to have this book and to be able to flip through, and and your eyes will land upon a phrase or a poem or this or that, and it's gonna resonate. It might make you cry your eyes out, and that's okay. Tears are the pressure valve to the soul. And that is my phrase. I am coining my own phrase. You um I think that might have answered your question.

You did answer my question, and you you said so many beautiful things, you know, starting with like you know, bringing a little bit of levity to it. And and it's interesting, right? Because I think there are some topics by which we there's just so much significance around them. And we can't, like it seems like we can't have a sense of humor about it or or or bring levity to it, and because in some way it's like we're mocking it or we're diminishing it or or things like that. And it's kind of an interesting that like paradox of we don't want to talk about grief. It's a taboo topic, but yet you can't have a sense of humor about it because that is in some way not honoring this significant thing that grief is. And and I know from my own experience that with the trauma that I've gone through and and processing that and in my family, some of the things that we've dealt with, like the saving grace was being able to bring, you know, respectful humor to it, right? The being able to laugh about it, being able to or disrespectful humor.

That's usually the funniest stuff.

Yeah, I guess what I well, I mean, my family tends to run a little bit sarcastic. So what I meant more by that was like, you know, never at the I do, I do, I understand. Never at the expense of someone uh who's dealing with something difficult, but like in a way to bring rel because I think there is there is a relief in comedy. Um, you know, when you're talking about, and I I'm blessed, it's interesting, I'm 43. So when you were talking about losing your father at 43, I was like, I'm blessed that I have both of my parents still with me. And I do know that they're like that. I had a friend of mine who, when she lost both of her parents, she said it was like the roots of her tree had been cut off. Like, you know, that and she didn't even like realize it until they died. And and she didn't realize it fully until her father died. Her mother died first, but it was like that there was this way in which our the sourceful relationships to us, and it may not just be our mother and her father, whoever those people are for us, but it's like they anchor us to the earth in some way, or they anchor us to our life. And so I can totally imagine, you know, you're you're going on this journey through life, and then all of a sudden you lose these significant people, and it's a bit of a like a you know, you had to create tools for yourself. What I heard is that you created tools for yourself, or you found tools from other people's work, Esther Hicks, you know, you found these tools for self-soothing that allowed you to get out of that free fall and be able to ground yourself again. And then, you know, then once you find that, so I think this is why a lot of people become entrepreneurs or or change paths or whatever, because we have these moments in our life and we discover something for ourselves like you did. And then what's natural in humanity when we move away all of the other stuff that gets in the way is the wanting to contribute, a wanting to pay it forward, a wanting to share those gifts with other people. And I can see that you've done that through your poetry and and your speaking and the other work that you do. I want to talk about self-soothing. And before we before we do that, I just want to thank you because this topic is one. I think when I look out at the world today, and and and my focus of my work is becoming more and more about healing trauma and and and creating spaces and conversations for people to heal trauma, which I never would have imagined it would end up there. I started in business and and and the evolution of my work. And and but given what my family's been through, it's like kind of on the other side of this unfolding as things have gone on over time and continue to unfold. It's like, well, duh, of course it's gonna go there. Like, I mean, all of the things that you've been through, let's just make sense. But it's so important that we have spaces and people who who create spaces to have these conversations. Because when I look out at the world today, so much of what I see is unhealed trauma. You know, nations warring with other nations, families warring with each other, disconnection everywhere. And I think a part of why trauma doesn't get healed is because we don't like have tools and awareness and powerful, like powerfully teach our children and each other how to grieve, how to get things complete, how to move on. Right. And uh so just I really want to acknowledge and thank you for being someone who's out there in the work, do in the world doing that work.

Well, um again, Amber, oh my goodness, your your generosity is is overwhelming. And I I want to address um, you know, you know, some of the the tools, like you said, and um, and also at the same time answer the when when you do lose one of your anchors, right? And um, you know, because we can wrap that all together, actually. If it would be okay with you, I would like to share the very first piece in my book. Yes, because it thank you so much, because it encapsulates my philosophy. Now, you and your listeners actually get a bonus backstory. So uh the backstory is um while my book contains roughly half of the pieces are pieces that I wrote as my own processing. The uh the other pieces, you know, the other 50, 40, 50 percent of the book are pieces that I wrote to reach out instead of going and getting a card. I am a poet, I I have that um gift, and and I'm like, I can do just as good as Hallmark. So, and nothing against Hallmark. They're lovely, but uh it's like, no, I I you know I got I got I got this. And so uh I got this. And so there was a a young man uh in my office in the energy sector, a trading shop, energy trading shop, and and he lost his mom, you know, it and it was one of those sudden uh situations that you and I touched on before uh we started recording. And you know, so she was not, you know, there hadn't been a long illness or anything like that. It it all happened fairly rapidly that she declined and she made her transition. And this young man, 24, 27 at the most, you know, just such a sweet, sweet young man. And you could feel, you could feel the pain radiating off of him, you know. It didn't matter if he wasn't he wasn't doing or saying anything in particular, he was just so lost. And I had uh traveled home, you know, just for a routine visit. I was living on the east coast and traveled back to Wisconsin. And while I was in the airplane, I don't know if it had anything to do with the fact that I was so high up in the air. I had just had a lovely visit with family, and I was on my way back, and all of a sudden I was absolutely overcome. Now, this is not my normal writing style or process. I I, you know, the the the the stewardess, it's like, you know, do you have paper? Do you have a pen? You know, I and so she bless her, she scrambled, she got me something to write. This piece wrote itself, it did not require editing. And again, this is not true of many of the pieces that are in there, you know, it's more of a process and you comb through and whatever. This one wrote itself in five minutes. And uh, so it does reference a child and things like that, and because it was written for this young man, so and you can tell me if I was channeling his mom. The piece is called I Am Not Gone. Even though my body gave out and I'm no longer around, I am not gone. For you, my child, who is still so young. I pray you'll never feel that I abandoned you or that you are all alone. I'm not gone. It's not just your memories of me that will keep me alive. Although thinking about how much I love you and how proud I am of you is good. There are other forces, factors, helpers that will be there for you when you need me. I'm not gone. They will constantly come and go from your life, for there can never be another me. But be there for you, they will be. Co-workers, friends, relatives, and many more, providing you with comfort, advice, and care. So while it's true, I've left this realm, I'm still watching over you, and with my helpers, my agents, if you will, I am still there to guide you and advise you. I am not gone. When you miss me, just stand silently and listen to my voice beating inside you. My voice sings in the wind and will resound in others too. My helpers, for I am not gone.

Beautiful, Deb. I um thank you for sharing that with us. I love this idea of helpers, and it's interesting because I think back to my childhood, and even though my mom wasn't gone, like my mom is still again so blessed, she was dealing with so much of the impacts of the trauma that she went through. And um, you know, for a long time I had this narrative that I, you know, that I didn't have anyone to emotionally take care of me when I was when I was young. But I can like when they look back now, I'm like, oh no, there were helpers. Like there were other people, there were other women, there were other people that came into my life at different points. And and and my mom also created that around me as well, um, in order to be able to provide support because she was dealing with whatever she was dealing with. And and one of the things I think that's helped been so great in our relationship and in our family is just the ability to be authentic and real about it and and talk about our our our individual experience, not like it's the truth, but our individual experience and our collective experience is a family of what it was like to go through that. So I love that I love that poem. I think um it's beautiful and I think it really does. Like I can imagine, like that would be the mum thing to do, right? The mum thing would be to send helpers if you know the mom couldn't be there themselves. Uh that's such a that's such a motherly, a motherly thing to do. And I'm sure that poem brought him so much comfort um when you shared that with that young man.

And and that leads me to a question that you had asked uh with regard to when someone's so significant, right? Uh whether well just just someone so significant, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. You know, if it was a blood relative or an adopted relative, you know, step parents, you know, um it whoever is like you know helping to shape your life, someone that is, you know, helps keep you grounded. I think you mentioned that fabulous word, which I love, and and someone who's an anchor. And well, there they are physically there. And now the next moment, they're they're not. And and how do you how do you move forward without them there? Well, this is where for for myself, this it goes back to the things that I was, I was, I was putting out. I was putting out so law of attraction, right? You're I'm sure familiar with it, but if if someone isn't, it's effectively what we focus upon shapes our reality. That's the most simple, down and dirty law of attraction. What you what you're the most focused upon is your reality. So if you're very focused on walks in nature, you know, blessings in your life, your experience is going to be pretty good. If you're focused, if you get distracted, because there we're human and there's a lot of distractors out there, uh, politics and gas prices, and this and that, and the other thing. And and we're human. So I mean it is part of our existence. I'm not suggesting people live in a bubble, but definitely during the grieving process, you might want to maybe be in a little bit of a bubble. Um, and what causes us pain, as it was, as it was described in I I believe one of the eight uh Esther Hicks Abraham books was you know, effectively what causes us pain. So when you're in alignment, you're in alignment with source, that's your spirit, God, whatever your higher power, whatever you want to um refer to that as, uh there's no right or wrong. And that when you're in alignment, things are bebopping along pretty good typically. And um, and and therefore the the the focus on happiness, it's kind of like every airline has it figured out. If you want to be of use to anyone next to you, you have to secure your oxygen mask first. I translate that with I need to be in a good place if I want to help anyone else. And I I love uplifting. I I love, you know, that's why, you know, that's why I do what I do. There is so much love and yet there is so much pain. And if anything that I say or do can help alleviate, can help uh foster within you techniques to to um self-soothe, you know, that's the best day. That's the best moment. And what causes pain, my understanding, is we pinch ourselves off. And you had mentioned about not having any power. And and I and I do understand and appreciate what you said and and would agree. We we've not been taught great self-soothing techniques or skills or empowerment skills. Um, but the way it was described in one of the law of attraction uh books was we pinch ourselves off. So when someone like a parent has made their transition from physical back into non-physical, we you know, the first things that we do is I can't hug you again. I I can't touch you, I can't hear you, I can't kiss you, um, you are gone. I've lost you. How many sympathy cards? Sorry for your loss. I've lost you. You have lost the physical vessel. That is true, and that's why I want people to embrace that grief process because I have I've got no magic wand, no special tricks to be able to physically bring someone back. And the more that we focus on where they used to be, physically, we pinch ourselves off from where they actually are. So even as a as a young child, I I always embrace the fact that there's spirit, there's a soul, that when someone passes over, well, and even that concept, right? Pass over, leave here, go there. That um, you know, what we as humans in these precious meat suits, you know, we we do get very caught up in that physicality. And we assume that when someone makes that transition, that they are lost to us, perhaps, and until we also transition. My experience has been anything but that. My experience, I went through it, you know, I embraced it, I I wallowed, I wore the cloaks of grief, I, you know, shined off, you know, the badge of honor, you know, uh after dad when mom then made her transition in 2008. In fact, uh one of my one of my self-soothing methods was she was a great cook. And uh, so all I wanted to do was cook her recipes. And if I got it where I tasted it, it literally tasted like something mom made. I I was so happy, you know, that that helped soothe me. Sadly, she cooked for a family of five and I lived alone. So I would a lot of food. I had a lot of food and I ate it. And I'm still, I'm still actually in 2022 starting to starting to, you know, deal with some of those love pounds that I that I put on through through those processes. And uh that said, um it actually ties in because uh one of one of her signature dishes were baked beans. And and it started to be with that some of the family reunions, they'd be like, you know, uh, well, and mom never wrote anything down. Clever little Minx. She never wrote anything down, so it was like, I, I, I, I, I somehow kind of figured it out. I mean, she did tell me, but um, one of my I think my brother said she'll always hold an ingredient back, so it's never as good as hers. Also a mom thing to do. Also a mom thing to do. Oh, well, that was a good try, sweetheart. Oh um, but uh no, I I I I started to actually get very good at that, you know, so much so that at family reunions, it's like okay, you're bringing Joyce's beans, you know, and um there was one day that I was making her recipe and I shut off my brain. I enjoy cooking, I enjoy the process, and for lack of a better term, I felt like I was channeling my mom. I was almost watching, it was almost an out-of-body. It wasn't technically, but it was almost an out-of-body where I'm watching myself dump and pour and stir and taste and know exactly how much more to dump and pour. And it was like, whoa, that was fun. That was fun. And I knew that I had connected with her where she is. I feel I'm closer to my mom than ever before. She is with me, Amber, all the time. And one of her favorite games is hide stuff on dab. Okay, someone might argue it's my memory getting bad, but I know better. I know better.

It's her it's interesting, you know, but Esther Hicks called this a pivoting, and I'm sure I'm sure the you know, my language for reframing isn't exactly what she means, because I know that she's talking about kind of like on a on an emotional level, whereas like for me, reframing is more mental, right? It's like I'm choosing, you know, yeah, you could choose to believe that your your your memory is going or that your mom is hiding things on you. Neither one of those things is true, but what gives you a better experience of life? What has you enjoy your life more? Believing that your mom's hiding things on you, right? You know, I think that's I I think that's where we get to get really creative with life, right? It's like we do, we do that. I could like even create my like the frame that I have for for anything that I experience. And um, you know, one of the things that you said earlier that I'd wanted to touch on was this idea where you talked about being happy in your suffering. And um, it's taken me a long time to get to the place where I'm grateful for all of it, including the things that don't go well or the experiences like I shared on the uh last week about my experience in San Francisco, getting that there was no accident that we went the wrong way. And um, and and even that the actually, if I think about that experience even more, we got off at one subway station and we and then and we started walking around the wharf. And I was the one who pushed Peter to he wanted to walk from where we were, and I didn't want to be late for the concert. So I said, let's get back on the subway or on the BART system in San Francisco and get off at this other. So, you know, there are no accidents accidents in life, and so I can be grateful for the things, but it's it's kind of like that. I get to now, after this conversation with you, explore this idea. Could I be happy for it? Could I be happy for the the experiences that are painful or the suffering? And I don't know that I could say that I can right now. And but there's somewhere to look, right? There's just like what what would that even look like to be happy for happy for all of it? And so that was one of the things that I just wanted to touch on, and and just you know, thank you for giving me an access to looking perhaps at something newly. And then the other thing, this idea, I I think there are layers to the to the grief. And I'm just kind of exploring this with you right now. You know, I remember many, many years ago, a gentleman in in the housing co-op that my kids and I lived in and where they grew up in Toronto died. And you know, John was like kind of like a grandfather. My dad was in New Zealand, I didn't really have a close relationship with him for much of my life. It with the we have a great relationship now. But John was like a person, like he helped take my kids to the hospital at times, and he is just a man and he was there and supportive. And um, and I uh I remember when he died thinking like everyone gives a different hug, and I'll never get John's hug again. Like, no two hugs are the same, and I'll never have that that experience of hugging him. I and I think there is a part of of grieving that loss, like the physical loss, right? And and even and I think it's important like uh to to to honor that part. It's like, yes, we are meatbags, and yes, there is like we're never gone. And and I I um I think there's so much uh I I hope in that. I don't know if that's even the word I want to use, but there's like opportunity because that because you get to continue having a relationship with someone when their physical experience is gone done. And we're back. We're having this joys of working and podcasting on the road. We've been having in Deb. Thank you so much for being so gracious and patient. As I have some technical glit, and we're just gonna include all of it today. We're just gonna include all of it.

Yes, I think that's wise. And I personally think that that may be John playing with you.

Letting me know he's still here.

He was a lovely letting you know it's like it's like, oh hey, she gave me a shout out. Let me let me just you know, pop in. And of course, it disrupted the internet connection, but so awesome.

Yeah, no, I think what I'm what I wanted to what I wanted to communicate and what I think is really like powerful is like just getting that there are there are layers to the grief and and and and we can get things complete and we can be complete with that they're physical, physically like the people that we love and care about are are physically not here anymore, and at the same time, you know, continue to grow and and develop and have a relationship with them in in whatever form they are in. And I think that's really beautiful. I also wanted to, and maybe we'll just like touch on this briefly, and I think we could probably have a thousand conversations and talk forever about this then. One, because you've just got so much to contribute on the subject, and two, because I think it is such a re a rich um conversation or network of conversations to be in. But you know, I wanted to touch on because you talked about losing your house and like your condo burning down. And I wanted to talk a little bit about like there, there's a lot of pain and things happening in the world today. You know, there are there are countries at war, there are people homeless, there are people drug addicted. So um what are some of the things that you could say to people about the grief of that, like the grief that we deal with with this circ set of circumstances uh that we live in in the world?

First and foremost, be easy with yourself. We beat ourselves up constantly. So, first and foremost, be gentle with yourself. We are human, and and of course these things are upsetting, and of course these things cause grief. And in fact, even a little bit just a just an add-on to joyful griever, in no way am I suggesting that pain is joyful. The the the kind of the paradox of that is that you know, embrace that uncomfortable pain and just give it your best to relax into uh the pain and then start to you know just always keep your yourself in a space to be kind and gentle to yourself, and and as long as you are not hurting yourself or hurting anyone else, all bets are off. You have to do what you have to do. I can't tell you how to grieve for John. He sounds delightful and a great hugger. But you know, so that that's that's why as you that's why, as universal as grief is, it is also so incredibly personal and individual. What I can tell you is, and this is through the law of attraction, uh stuff that I've been studying really full on for the last couple of years, all the various mentors that come with that, is that we actually have power when we are in alignment. And being in alignment, we come with emotions, and that's how you know if you're in alignment with your higher self or your source. Um, if you're happy, if you're happy, you're in alignment, if you're not happy, you're not in alignment. So when you're reading, of course, it's largely happy, and yet even then, even in its most, in its darkest days, often early on, in its darkest days, you're you're you're gonna have a moment. Something's gonna happen, and often it's a way that they can reach out and and reach across that that veil and let you know that they're there. It could be a song that comes on that hasn't been played in 20 years. It could be you're out for a walk in nature and you spot their favorite flower. It could be, you know, there's no end to how they can communicate when your resistance is gone. So usually it's when you are exhausted, you're all cried out. You know, maybe it's in a dream that they that they meet up with you because again, the pain is us pinching ourselves off, us pinching ourselves off. So I love your reframing, right? I love your reframing. You have the ability to reframe, you have the ability, you know. I I want you to feel the pain, I want you to embrace it, and I'm not asking you to be happy about it. It's just I know that by doing that process, you start to be able to relax into it, to quiet your mind, cry yourself out, and that's when you are open, that's when your resistance is gone, that's when you get a glimmer, a glimpse, a moment, a butterfly, a hummingbird, and you know it's them. That's beautiful, and and and that's true of anything. Now, I'll just add that when we are happy, when we are in alignment, that's what I mean when I say secure your own oxygen mask first. Yeah, we feel powerless, but Amber, I guarantee you, darling, when you are in alignment and you're happy and your light is shining, you have the power that creates worlds.

Oh, well, you know, I as we all do. I I love everything that you said, Deb. I I couldn't agree more. I think as human beings, like, you know, the biggest one of the biggest sadnesses is how powerless people think they are when in fact it's the complete opposite. I believe that we're always creating our life. We're just often creating by default from the past, and we create the things that we don't want because of where we focus our our our mind and our attention. So a hundred percent agree with you. And um, you know, one of the beautiful things that I'm taking away from this conversation is just is that grief that that we grieve something or someone or some circumstance is is an indication of love or of a commitment. We wouldn't grieve the current state of circumstances of the world if we didn't have some kind of commitment that things be some other way than they are. We wouldn't grieve the loss of someone if they hadn't touched our life or hadn't in some way contributed to us, whatever that contribution was. And so, you know, where there is grief. There's love.

And um exactly. And that's why it hurts so much. The more love, the more um the the person transitioning from their physical, which is what we're all about, which makes sense. But when they do transition back into non-physical, and and you know, we're all consumed with you know being pinched off from that. Yeah. So um at some point, I know that we're we're probably running really close on time, but if you would allow me to wrap with um the last poem that's in the book, I think that sounds like the perfect way to wrap up this conversation, please. And um, so on on go my reading glasses again. And uh there we go. And it's actually the title piece, and um and also just a little a quick little shout out as far as um uh my book, this book.

The greetings are yes, you're gonna be able to find the link to that in the show notes as well as how to get it.

And and the link will be there, and also checking out the uh my gift to everyone are the uh the videos that I'm posting. It's me reading uh the the various pieces on my YouTube channel, and so eventually the whole book will be available that way, but uh that's my gift to everyone to to just go on and not have to buy anything. But uh that said, the the title piece, The Grieving Heart. The grieving heart is a heavy heart, for it bears the weight of a loss, it can feel like a broken heart, which at times is angry, frightened, and confused. The grieving heart requires special handling because it is so bruised. But given time, it will mend. What is most important for the grieving heart to know is that it must be allowed time and space to grieve. The grieving heart is a giving heart that can always find ways to turn the pain into a means of affecting a positive future while honoring the loved one lost to them. The grieving heart is a hopeful heart that one day we will find a cure or build the ballpark or break ground on a new museum. For the grieving heart knows no bounds to its creativity, it will put into words pictures, paintings, songs, sculptures, and dance, whatever it takes to remember their loved ones. The grieving heart is so full of love, which is what causes it to hurt so much, until it has had time to grieve and thus heal. The grieving heart is everyone's heart from time to time. So find your way to turn this loss into an action that will honor the one for whom you grieve today. Create a legacy of love for them that you can leave behind. And when you're ready, but not before it's time, walk away from your grieving heart and do what honors the one you lost the most. Live your life.

Yeah, that was you are lovely. Your writing is beautiful, and for those that buy the book and listen to the YouTube videos because hearing you read your poetry is just beautiful. Um, so I'm telling everyone, all of the listeners, buy the book and listen to the videos. Um, you know, Deb, just just thank you. Uh I think we I believe that we live in a world that is in desperate need of healing and and and being able to process grief and move through grief and and and all of that is a critical component to being able to release and move on. And so just thank you for being someone who's out there in the world, sharing that message, sharing yourself. And and for me, my big commitment to people is that people live a created life, that no one's ever stuck, that people get that they have the ability to create whatever they want. So thank you for being someone who's out there doing just that and and following your heart and contributing in the ways that that only you can to other people. And um just thank you so much for for the time that you gifted me this morning to have this conversation with you.

Amber, from the bottom of my joyful heart, it has been such a delight to have this delicious dance and conversation with you. You are light, you are love, and your work is so important. And I am so honored to have had a chance to talk to you. I hope we get a chance to do it again.

I believe we will. For everyone listening to the show, you can catch up with that and find out how to get a copy of her books and her website and all of that in the notes for the show. And just thank you so much for for joining us in this conversation this morning. Have a great week.

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out what would Amber Do dot com.