SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard. Each week, Amber dances in conversation with inspirational leaders out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly created life of service to others. And now, here is your host.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Welcome back, everyone, to What Would Amber Do. It is such a joy to welcome back to the show George Anastasopoulos. George is the chief outcomes off engineer and founder of Leadership Fundamentals. He is an accredited coach and sales leader. George has taught at the University of Toronto and Schulik education. Oh my gosh, mouthfuls. Schulik, Executive Education Center. George left a 20-year corporate career to pursue his passion of making helping managers do less. I love this. Every time I say this, I love this. Helping managers do less, accomplish more, and make a difference. And is a published author of the book I Love Mondays, George. Uh, and George is also a dear friend of mine and someone who I just really, really enjoy being with. So, George, thank you so much for gifting us your time to come and catch us up on everything that you've been up to and talk about the things that are important to you and in your work.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Well, thank you very much, Amber, for welcoming me to the show. It's always a pleasure speaking with you, and I look forward to our conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about who you are and your story and what's important to you and why, you know, that's a big deal, right? You were a very successful human being in your corporate career. You know, you made you had a big impact, you made a difference for a lot of people, and and you walked away from that to, you know, at a time in life when many people would be just kind of putting their feet up and looking at retirement and you know, kind of perhaps coasting out the the rest of their career. You you kind of like totally changed course and direction. So tell us a little bit about what was at the source of that.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Well, it's it's a terrific question, and thank you for asking. You know, it's I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a client who is younger than me, uh, but was working for a large uh multinational here in Canada. And at one point he said to me as we were catching up uh after a period of time, he said, You know, George, I would have thought after I shared with him what I was working on, and I was writing my book at the time and starting a new business venture and on and on. He said to me, I would have imagined that you would have been winding things down by now. And I said, What are you talking about? I said, That is traditional thinking. Retirement is for dead people. This is not about, I mean, God didn't put us here to take up space. We want to continue to make a difference. I want to continue to make a difference and impact people's lives and, you know, make a contribution. And so um, you know, that that's kind of why I'm here. And in many ways, leaving corporate, you know, after 20 years, because I had a very successful corporate career. I worked in four tier one companies by global standards. I had probably 20 jobs in those 20 years simply because of you know, assignment changes and promotions and what have you, 20 different bosses. And so I think I was notorious as the person who you know couldn't keep a job for longer than a year or so. Um it but I left all of that because I felt there was another place where I could make a difference. There was uh there was, you know, the challenges of working in the corporate world. I felt like I want to make a difference, I want to do good work, I want to help others do good work. I just don't know how to do it in this world. I just seem to be running up against things that are getting in the way. And I wanted to find a better way. And so I left to start my own little business that's morphed and changed over the years. Uh, but the doors have opened and I'm starting to do more of that now. So um, yeah, I'm very excited about the journey I'm on, and I'm that's excited to be here to talk to you about it.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

It's so beautiful, you know, when you were talking about um your experience of like taking that leap and saying, you know, there there is something that's calling, it's like I've heard it referred to as like a knock. Like sometimes in life we hear a knock, right? And it's like, and sometimes we ignore it for a long time. Like we hear the knock for a while and we're like, no, no, no, not that, not doing that. Like, no, I'm comfortable where I am, or you know, I'm not gonna take that risk or whatever. But I think like if I look back at my life, George, like all of the times I've answered the knock in my life, um, like there's been such miracles on the other side, right? And yeah. Um, and and I so and I think it takes courage to answer the knock sometimes in life. Perhaps sometimes it's like easy and simple, but other times, because there's not always going to be agreement from you know, the people. I'm kind of going through that a little bit myself with some of the changes that are happening in my my career and my journey, um, where sometimes answering the knock creates uh a situation for other people where they may not like always agree or align on the choices that we're making. So I just wanted to to say all that to to honor you for for being someone who had your commitment be bigger than all of the reasons you might have had to not take that that journey.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Well, th thank you so much, Amber. You know, mediocrity is easy, you know. Uh avoiding risk is easy. It's the this is why we're here. It's not why I'm here. And and um yeah, interestingly enough, I mean, you first of all, kudos to you for pronouncing my name correctly, as always.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

I put a lot of effort into that every time.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

It's important and I and I know you do, and I respect that about you. But it does bear a story, it does bear a short story, and and my my last name is quite a mouthful, it's Greek heritage, obviously. And Anastasopolis is actually two names or two words in that name. The second half of my name, Pulos, is the Greek term for the house of or the clan of, if you imagine that. The first half of my name is from the Greek word anastasi, which means the resurrection. And so my last name means the house of the risen sun. Well, with a name like that, you kind of want to do something meaningful with your life, I guess, you know, as opposed to just you know drifting, drifting on uh on a on a raft in the ocean someplace. It you know, you do you do want to make a difference. And and quite honestly, it as I said before, it's too easy to to settle into mediocrity where we're just getting by. And there are plenty of folks who, you know, in the world of work, as an example, you know, they'll they'll go to work and they just they don't volunteer for anything, they just want to do their job, do it well, get the day over with, don't uh, you know, keep their nose clean, stay out of trouble, and get paid for it. Now that's not a bad thing, but it's not my life, and it's not the way I want to live my life. I've made a commitment to improve the way the world works in the world of work, and that is about how people interact and work together, because that's that's where the solution takes place. Technology, lots of it, processes, plenty of those, technical skills by the bushel full. People. People are hard and it's difficult and it's challenging. And and and my intention is to help folks really change the way they work with other people to be able to say, Amber, I love working with you. And that's only possible if Amber can say that of me first. So I gotta start right here.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I love that. You know, I want to get into the book because I know that you know, this this journey has prompted the writing of I Love Mondays and want to give you, you know, us an opportunity to hear all about that. But just before we go there, you know, when you were talking about not um for you, yourself not accepting media mediocrity, it reminds me of like, are you gonna be the leaf or are you gonna be the wind? And it's not a problem, right? Like some people are the leaf, some people are the wind. But I think where we get in, and and that's just like it's not like the being the wind is better than being the leaf. But I think when by design or desire, you're the wind and you're operating as a leaf, or vice versa, like that's where you know, where there's like that lack of alignment, right? It's like you you you feel a calling, you know you're meant for something different, or you you feel that, you know, that knock and you ignore it, or you allow your fear and and all of those things to get in the way. So um, you know, uh that's what I heard when you were talking about the mediocrity.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

You know what I remember? There are there are a lot of people who want to be and believe that they ought to be the wind, they just don't know how to be. Yes, they just don't know how to be the wind effectively. They don't have the tools, they don't have the knowledge, they don't have the capabilities, they don't have the wisdom or the expertise, and they don't have a very good role model because the world of work does not give us good role models around how effective leadership and how effective heart, which were talking about heart a while ago, how heart factors into the way we work with people to produce extraordinary outcomes for the constituents that we serve, whether they be the clients or the organizations or whoever. So that's that's that's what I want to do. I want to, you know, I've spent all of my life building, you know, content and capabilities and competencies around this topic. And I want to be able to take those people who say, you know what, I want to love my work, I want to love who I do it with, I want to make a difference. You know, I want to say T G I M as opposed to T G I F all the time, except I don't know how. And I want to equip those people. I want to bring them the tools, I want to help them support them along that journey. So beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

So, speaking of TGIM, thank God it's Monday. I love Mondays, and I actually do love Mondays, and I know you do too. Um but talk to me about, you know, how did the book evolve out of you know your desire to be able to provide people with these competencies, skills, tools around really loving what they do for their work and and and being responsible. I like I love what you said about starting over here with me. Like, if I want to have great relationships with my colleagues or I want to love work, then I've got to do the work over here where I am to be creating that first.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Yeah. Well, you know, and that's I want to preface by by sharing that that point that you just talked about a little bit further. I want to, you know, there's two places where we can go. There's only two places. There really isn't any other. There are only two places we can go to improve our lives. We can either change the circumstances so that they suit what we want, or we can change us to best deal with and manage and uh uh work with the circumstances that we have. Um, and so it's most of us choose the former. We choose to change our environment. We say, you know what? I don't like the people I work with, or I don't like the culture of this company, or my boss is, you know, not easy to work with, or whatever. And we leave, we go fishing someplace else. We think that changing our environment will be the solution. Well, sometimes it is, but most often it isn't. Well, I'm on the other camp that says, I want to equip you to be the best version of you possible. So everybody on the planet wants to say, I want to, I love, I love working with you. And when that happens, you change everybody, everyone around you. That's how transformation starts. It starts right here, not out there someplace. You know, it's um there are plenty of statistics, you know, out in the web. Um, uh according to I think it's Gallup that you know has published employee engagement surveys that say two-thirds of employees in North American marketplaces or North American are either disengaged or actively disengaged. By the way, actively disengaged means sabotaging others or the company. Like that's pretty gruesome stuff. Um, according to the American Institute of Stress, 80% of people finish their day some form of stress-related physical or psychological symptoms. Um, you know, 25% of us are burnt out apparently. And I think that number sounds really low because I'm pretty sure it's got to be higher, you know. And and what and and and one in five are driven to tears at work. Can you imagine that? That's what work is doing to us, driving us to tears. I mean, that's just horrible. And what do we do about it? Well, we don't know what to do about it, so we suck it up. We resign ourselves to the notion of us just the way it is. Well, I believe it isn't. And so when I wrote together with my co-author Dakota, who enrolled me, by the way, and I'm going to show you what I mean by that in a moment. You know, when we wrote this book together, we wanted to give hope and inspiration. We also wanted to make it a business book that contained a few tools in there that are helpful. But lately, we wrote a story to provide hope and inspiration. And we did it because we wanted to show people what it might look like if you were the hero of your own story. And the hero of our story, her name is Jessica, as you know, and she has a wise coach that coaches her through her journey of transformation, and she ultimately transforms the world around her and her place of work. And so we wanted to not just enlighten people, you know. I mean, reading a business book, with all due respect to every other author that's ever written a business book, I mean, can sometimes be pretty dull stuff. You know, there's a chapter per topic that they want to talk about and they share the knowledge and they might tell an anecdote or two, but it's it's not a particularly entertaining way of learning. Uh, so we wanted to enlighten and entertain. So we told a story. And and of course, you know, Jessica's coach is a sage and wise, non-human character. Don't, don't, you know, spill the beans. You know. So so there's a little bit of mystical and and and and and sort of whimsical in there as well, uh, to to build it. So so we wanted to, we just wanted to make people aware that, hey, this is you see yourself in here. Well, you're the solution and we can help you.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, it's so I've read the I was part of the early editing or you know, one of the rounds of editing and reviewing the book. And you know, I definitely uh you'll be able to to get a link to purchase a copy in the in the show notes after.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

You know, run, don't walk to get yourself a copy. It's a it's a great, it's a great read. It's a quick read, it's fun read, like it's enjoyable. It's not like what you might think is your typical business book. And it's interesting because I remember when we were kind of like when you were going through working with the quota on writing the book, and we engaged in this conversation about this like kind of otherworldly coaching character and and how that might leave people and what they might think. But just when you were talking about it right now, it kind of landed for me a little bit like you know, there's lots of you can, you know, the readers of the book can interpret it however they want, and that's fine. But for me, it's a little bit about like perhaps that otherworldly character is our own intuition and our own gut that we've like suppressed and ignored for so long. Like that that part of ourselves that is aligned with who we want to be for people and who we want to be in the world and how we want to be honored and and honor others, but has gotten beaten down or suppressed or not been given a voice. And and so, you know, one possible interpretation, not like it's the truth, because I think you intentionally created the character in a way that people would be able to relate to it in whatever way wanted they wanted to. But for me, it's kind of like pointing to the importance of tapping back in to our inner intuition and our inner gut and being and being aligned with self and having that be what gives who we be as leaders in the world, versus like trying to fit into some mold of what leadership's supposed to look like or who leaders supposed to, you know, like all of that world, right? It's like there's so much noise out there about what it is to be a leader, and and so much of it is putting on a mask versus like being really authentic.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely, absolutely. So you you're you know, your takeaway, uh and it is up to the reader. I mean, this is what we do, right? When we read a story, I mean, we're but we're the central character in the story because we're relating to the person who's in pain or the person who's the hero, or the maybe even the villain, and you know, what's motivating the villain to behave the way they are, although I didn't build, we don't have villains in I Love Mondays. And and that's deliberate, by the way, because there are no villains. If you, you know, be it there, they're we walk around blaming the world and blaming our coworkers for not, you know, honoring our requests to submit the report that I asked them for on time or accurately, or ignoring my phone calls or my emails. And and so we we paint people as villains, and and that just turns us into victims.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

So, you know, and and so in many ways, and I love Mondays and in the work I do is it's very much intended for people to look inside and just say, stop being a victim. There are no villains, and there's no villains, I'm not a victim. So I don't want to be a victim because in order for me to be a victim, there has to be a villain. So if I'm feeling bad, I'm looking for somebody to call the villain. And and all I'm saying is stop looking. You're you're not a victim, you're the solution here, you know. You're and you just don't know how. You don't have the tools, you don't have the confidence, you may not have some of the experience. But you know, fortunately, but we've amassed a whole pile of it. I want to share that. And I started it through the through I Love Mondays and in my work in leadership fundamentals. It's it's just such a fascinating place to be. And and um so yeah, yeah, so that's that's where that's where I'm trying to help people is to come to grips with the fact that you're it. Like you're it's and and it's a beautiful thing because you are the solution, and I will help you and support you and equip you along that journey.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah, it's you know you and I've had this conversation before in terms of like how we define leadership and what our leader is. And you know, I uh for me, it's like leadership is about ways of being and acting, it's not about titles, it's not about hierarchy, and like every one of us has an opportunity to step into leadership in in in whatever way in their life in whatever area that they want. And there are areas where we might defer leadership to other what someone else and let their leadership, you know, let them lead and we will follow. I um, but for any of the leaders out there that are kind of listening to the show right now that might be having, because we know it's been a crazy couple of years. And and you know, even before the pandemic, organizations were feeling like, and I know this is kind of part of your central message like they're being asked to do more with less resources, and that's constantly this scarcity. Got to try and get more effective. Can we only try and get more effective and do more with even less and less and less? So going into pandemic organizations were already stretched, I think. And that was kind of the, and that's like a badge of honor sometimes, right? Like that, that martyring ourselves kind of for the cause. And then you put on top of that the experiences of the last two and a half years, where I know from talking to other leaders, there's been a bit, and and people in corporations, there's been a bit of an experience of like there used to be peaks and valleys. And I don't know if you've heard this from the people that you work with, George, but there used to be peaks and valleys. And so we knew that even if there were really intense periods of, you know, where where there was going to be a lot asked of us, that there would be a valley coming and we would kind of be able to rest a little bit. And it seems like since the pandemic, that's, you know, especially with people working from home, people are working more hours, there's less social time, less person related time. Um, I think it's safe to say that many leaders, regardless of what title they have in organizations, are feeling burnt out. You know, so if you if for the people listening to this, what what are some of the things that they can do to kind of transition out of, you know, from burnout to inspirational leader?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Right, right. No, it's a terrific, it's a terrific question. Um first of all, you know, I I ask this question occasionally of clients who say something like this. Well, this is temporary, George. I'm overworked, overwhelmed, overstressed right now because it's, you know, we got to have this deadline or the we're launching, whatever, right? And it's only temporary. Once you know, I see the light at the end of the tunnel, it's it's June or it's wherever it is. Um, and once I get past that, it'll be okay. I said, Do you remember the last time there was a You know, this crazy amount of work and effort that you needed to reach a deadline, that you needed to launch a product, that you needed to get something out. Do you remember that? And how you thought that once you get there, it'll all be fine afterwards? Uh yeah. I said, how's it worked out since then? So first things first, don't be in denial.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Don't be in denial. Okay. Just because there's a light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean there isn't another tunnel right afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Or a train in the tunnel.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Or a train in the tunnel, which might be an even better metaphor to consider. Um, so so thinking it'll go away because we've reached the deadline or we've accomplished the goal just means it'll be another goal. There'll be another finish line right afterwards. So first of all, don't fool yourself, number one. That's the that's a very important thing to keep in mind. Secondly, um, and in and in many ways, it's because of our belief systems that we are locked into our behaviors, right? So the stress that I'm causing myself because of the workload I'm in is my beliefs. And my beliefs might include this really favorite beliefs that's been the bane of my existence for most of my career is I gotta do it all perfectly right now. Welcome to the world of stress. Now, it doesn't matter how much is asked of me, if I cling to that belief, then I got no place to run. Gotta do it all perfectly right now. There is just a whole host of hurt inside that phrase. First of all, it's all about I, not we. Gotta do it all perfectly. Oh my gosh, can you see that? So, so as leaders, we need to challenge our own beliefs, and we don't even know we have them. And I'm willing to go on a limb here and say that many of us hold on to this other very simple three-word belief that also gets in the way. It's called, I got this. The sense of I got this leads into management behavior that is control, authority, instruction, you know, rigor, discipline, process. Now, I'm not saying that's what those are bad things, I'm just saying they're we're obsessed with those things at the expense of good leadership that connects to people in ways that just create amazing results because together. Replace the belief of I got this with something different, like I am not alone. All of a sudden the world changes. Did you see that? Just in your own reaction there, from I got this to I am not alone, changes everything about how I view the world, how I behave, how I act, and ultimately how the outcomes come from that.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I love it. You know, we're we're reading the energy of money in uh of in my book club right now. And one of the things that she points to is like really driven behavior, like places where we suck energy, right? And you know, money's just another energy. And, you know, but one of the key messages in the in the book is perfectionism and like how that stops us from taking action or like completing things in our life. And and so I I really do um, I really do see how that that's a huge barrier to, you know, to creating a life that you love and a work environment that you love. And then the other thing that is, you know, we could probably spend hours talking about, you know, our shared journey around this one, but you know, the whole like not not asking for help, not putting your hand up, not not looking for partnership and and trying, you know, trying to do everything on your own. I think um that for me has been um something that I'm actively working in and has have taken great strides in since kind of the the end of last year. But it, you know, I can see so clearly in the rear view mirror of life how I made my so many things in my life harder by not, you know, not putting my hand up and saying, you know, I could use some support here, or you know, how how can I grow other people's leadership instead of coming from you know, arrogance or I've got to do it on my own, or all of those kind of limiting beliefs that you're pointing to. So, you know, such great, um, you know, really practical advice for anyone, regardless of what you're dealing with in life, I think, not just not just leadership.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Um well, to to that point, and I and I want to point this out, you know, we use the word leader, leadership. We we we use it pretty um, you know, pretty liberally in our language. And you might say, oh, you know, I'm I'm team lead on this project, or I'm the leader of this group, or I'm on the leadership team, or something like that. Well, you can get promoted to supervisor, you can get promoted to manager, you can get promoted to director, vice president, CEO, COO, or any other title of some significance. No one can promote you to leader. That's something you do to yourself. Oh, I love that. That is so powerful. Nobody can promote you to leader, and it starts with belief shifts in how we view work. And I'll give you a distinction here between employee thinking, manager thinking, and leader thinking. All right. And if you and there's a host of points, but I'll just give you three. Kind of three key things that employees believe as employees of a company. And we're all kind of employees of some company. And here's three things that a typical employee might believe. They'll employ, they'll they'll believe one, uh, I gotta do lots of work. Yeah, right? Everybody believes that. Number two, um, I gotta do it right. Number three, I gotta follow the rules. Now, most employees, if they actually believe that and honor those three things, are they end up holding on to their job. And they're not bad beliefs, they just happen to be beliefs that most employees hold. Here are three beliefs, similar vein, that managers believe. I gotta do more, I gotta do it better, and I gotta enforce the rules. You get that, right? But these are the three beliefs by by correlation that leaders hold on to. I will accomplish more, I will make a difference, and I will challenge the rules. And as soon as we shift our beliefs, and we have to, by the way, as soon as we get promoted from employee to some form of managerial position, our beliefs start to shift. Well, well, they will not give to leader because you can't get promoted to leader unless you do it to yourself. So when a leader and adopt those beliefs, everything about us changes. Then what we do is we apply simple skills in how we interact with people so that we in fact facilitate relationships that are extraordinarily trust-based, very human, and they will produce extraordinarily work extraordinary work relationships, leading to great outcomes.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

So great. I love that. I think that idea that we can't get no one can promote us to leadership because it is. It's a choice that we make to be willing, right? Yeah to take on that mantle, that role. Um and and again, like regardless, like leadership in our family, leadership in the not for the volunteer organizations that we participate in, leadership in our social circles and leadership on social media, right? When we speak out about some a cause that is important to us or somewhere where we see think our voice can make a difference. And and and that is really beautiful. George, I'd love to hear what are you up to in 2022? What's going on? I mean, we're in, I can't believe we're kind of in the second quarter of the year already. Um, what what are you creating for 2022 and and what's to come?

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Well, it uh thank you for asking. So we're we're on a journey here, and I'm um you know, I've lived and died by those painfully you know, uh limiting three-word beliefs. I, you know, I got this for most of my life. So I've have worked diligently to get past that belief and into this new belief of I am not alone. And so 2022 has me engaging colleagues and collaborators and friends in a much more intentional way in my business and in my work. Um, so I there there are there are people uh prodding me and poking me with that that never did so before because I never invited them in. And it's gonna, and it's really sharpened my thinking and my perspective and my my inspiration around um where I'm going with with the work that I'm doing. And in 2022 specifically, the intention is to get I Love Mondays into in front of millions of eyeballs, because it's designed to create awareness of what the workplace could be, what it is and what it could be, and that give hope and inspiration. Secondly, is to get as many of these people with these eyeballs to join the cause, to become part of uh leadership fundamentals, my company, you know, a journey of some sort, taking some applying some of the skills that I made a quick reference to the other moment. So beautiful. And then yeah, and then thirdly, uh we uh still we just uh you know sort of broke the uh uh uh broke the ground on broke ground on I Love Mondays too, still early, a handful of chapters, uh but it's probably a year at least away. But but we've started work on I Love Mondays too. So that's what's uh that's what's in store for George in 2022. And and on top of that, it's it's life. It's my my my grandkids, my family, my wife, my dad. I'm I'm kind of chief caregiver to him. He's 94 and now lives alone. So uh so I'm so so there's plenty in my plenty on my plate that keeps me excited and motivated.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

I love what you said about like when you became, you know, when you took on the belief I'm not alone, uh, you know, partnership started showing up and people and that totally was, you know, 2022 is my journey into partnership. And what would it look like if I lived a life reaching for partnership as a default, right? Like what if that was my new normal was reaching for partnership and being in that inquiry? And I can just tell you, I, you know, the same experience, like people popping up. I want to work with you, I want, you know, the opportunity in Bali, like just so many opportunities to grow my impact. And and so I'm excited to see what else is coming for you in the in the coming year. And and George, I just really want to honor you and thank you for being someone who is so committed that whatever the workplace is, that it be a space in which people like one, love their job, want to be there, you know, feel like they're honored for the contributions that they make, have the opportunity to express their leadership in the world in whatever ways are meaningful for them. And like, just like, you know, your life, you are to me, you are a leader who um you, you know, you're a partner inside of my commitment that human beings get to live created lives of their own design based on what they authentically want. And you're you're just a leader who for me is really aligned and congruent in what you say and what you do and how you show up in the world and your commitment for people. And just so thank you for coming here today and sharing yourself with us and continuing to keep putting yourself out there and and shining your your light into the world and love Mondays, people. What are we doing if we can't love a Monday, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:08

You know it, Amber. Yeah, we we spend half our more than half our waking life in some form of work, unless we're retired or whatever, but uh, we more than half our waking life. We should be loving that, we should be excited by it, we should be inspired by the work we do, we should feel like it's meaningful, that it's purpose-driven. And and many of us, it's just a thing to get out of the way so that we can get home, have dinner, and watch the hockey game.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yes, really beautiful. I think that's the perfect note to end things on. You will be able to catch up with George and all of the incredible things and get a copy of the book in the show notes. George, so much love and respected honor, and thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Thank you, Amber. For everyone listening, have a great week, and we'll catch you next week.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out what would Amber Do.com.