SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard. Each week, Amber dances in conversation with inspirational leaders how to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly creative life of service to others. And now, here is your host.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

Welcome back, everyone. Welcome back to What Would Amber Do. It is my honor this evening to be speaking with Christy Haig and Megan Baudry. Is that Baudry? Baudry, yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

I just found out the other day I've been saying my last name wrong. My dad told me. So say it however you want.

SPEAKER_05 0:48

Okay. So, Baudry, it's so great to have you both on the show. Megan and Christy are co-authors of the soon-to-be-published book, Becoming a Butterfly. This book addresses the everyday mental health challenges we all deal with. It seeks to redefine how we view anxiety and depression. Christy is committed that all people get to live a fulfilling life beyond the internal prison that they may experience as a result of mental health. And Megan is committed that everyone that she gets to use her creativity to help others overcome their challenges. Ladies, thank you so much for being here and sharing yourselves with us today.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Thank you for having us. Yes, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:29

Yeah, you're so welcome. So it's kind of typical. We start like, how did how did the two of you connect? How did what's the journey been like? How did you come about? How did the book come about? You know, and and you can both share, but whoever wants to go first.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Sure. Um, so Megan is actually one of my sister's um very good friends. And we recently connected over social media because Megan, um I'll let her talk a little bit about her business, but both of our um businesses have kind of collaborated on a bunch of different giveaways and just different things to kind of help empower each other and build each other up. And um, it was so funny because I was actually saying to one of my relatives on a Friday, I was like, you know what? Like, I think I'm being called to write a book about my story. Like I feel like it might be time, but I've been doing so many things that I was like, I don't know if I can take this on right now. So I was just like, you know what? I'm I'm leaving it up to the universe. And then it just so happened, I just left it for the weekend. And then Megan actually reached out to me on the Monday and was like, Hey, have you ever thought about writing a book about self-development and you know anxiety and you know, living with depression? And I was like, no way. I was like, if that's not a sign from the universe, I don't know what it is. So I was like, Yes, let's do it. So she's like, let's co-write a book together. And that's kind of what how we stumbled along along that. Uh, did you want to add anything, Megan?

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Yeah. Um, so what kind of happened with me was I had sat down to make a vision board because I think vision boards can really help you steer you in the right direction of where you want to go. And I had always wanted to write a book and I put on my vision board write a book. So one day I was bored and I was sitting there looking at my vision board, and I thought, okay, I think it's time. But it seems like a really daunting task to do by myself. And I sat down and I started writing, but then I realized I was only doing it from one perspective, which was my perspective, and that's the perspective of taking medication while dealing with mental health issues. And I had been doing, as Christy said, we had been working together and doing some collaborations together. So I knew what she was all about, and I knew that she wasn't taking medication, thought she'd be the perfect match. So when I reached out to her and she was on board, we both just got so excited and we started writing right away, and it's come together so fast.

SPEAKER_05 3:57

I uh I love that. I think so. I'm I'm much older in years than the both of you ladies. I'm assuming, but you know, and what I love in like in hearing your story is the partnership. And that's something that I've really taken on discovering newly in my life in the past year after being someone who kind of spent a lot of my life doing doing it on my own. And, you know, I what I say now is doing it the hard way. So it brings me a lot of joy to to see two, you know, two powerful young entrepreneurs who are collaborating and partnering. And and I love what you said, Megan, about, you know, I I have this perspective on on how I dealt with my journey through mental health and and the challenges I face and and looking for that other perspective, or you know, the because there's not just one way to deal with these things. So I think that's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Absolutely. I think it's been interesting for Christy too, because because of the topic that we're dealing with, I can say to her sometimes, you know, I'm not having the best day. Maybe we can push this off until tomorrow. And she completely gets it. So it has been a great collaboration and a great partnership for the two of us.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah, I've been so grateful for this whole experience because it's just, and this is even part of like my anxiety journey, my depression journeys, you know, and especially as women, we find that we have to be in competition with each other or, you know, in competition with, you know, people who are on their chapter 22 and we're just starting on our chapter 21. So it's just if there's been such a learning process from just like you said, like learning to collaborate with with other people, because it's like we can all win. We can all, you know, build each other up and just really create this empowering space that you know, it's not, it's not okay, I have to be on top or I'm better than someone, or you know, and that was kind of part of the letting go of the anxiety too. It's like, oh, this person is like doing so well, like in you know, beating myself up or judging them or anything. But with this partnership, it's just even like proving more to myself and letting go of that control that you know what, hey, like we're all doing our best, we're all doing what we can do, and we all deserve to to you know accomplish our dreams and and we can help each other. We can totally, you know, partner, we can collaborate, we can do all the things and still be the best versions of ourselves without the competition, which is I think such a beautiful, beautiful thing that I've learned even like even like in the past couple of weeks that we've been working together, Megan. So that's been uh a really great journey, like along this whole process.

SPEAKER_05 6:48

I I love what I heard in in both of your sharing, like, yeah, it's doing our best and also getting that our best isn't the same from day to day. And like when you can surround yourself with people like clearly you both have who who understand that and it's and hold space for, yeah, you know what, maybe we work on this tomorrow because today I'm dealing with whatever I'm dealing with. And and and that takes something, I think, especially, you know, as someone who really prides myself on on operating with a certain level of integrity in my life, but I used to do that at the cost of my my other, you know, my well-being, because it was like, well, I said I was gonna do something. And so I would just spend a lot of my time, my life soldiering through and kind of like forcing myself to do things even when I wasn't well emotionally, mentally, physically. And so um it takes courage to say, you know what, not today. Like I need today or whatever. And and so I think it's really great uh when we can find those people that can really support us wherever we're at we're at on our journey.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Yeah, I think that's a really hard thing for some people to learn too, though, is that rest can be productive, right? Because we need to think that we think we're we always have to be going and doing something in order to be accomplishing things and to be successful. But sometimes that can actually hinder your progress. And if you take that time to rest, you might accomplish more and reach your goals faster or in a way that works better for you because you took that time.

SPEAKER_05 8:18

That's so great. So talk to me a little bit more, you know. So so Megan, you mentioned that you're, you know, you've dealt with mental health challenges, and your approach to dealing with those was using medication. Christy, you know, you kind of suggested there was a different approach. How do you approach, you know, dealing with mental health challenges?

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Oh, so in addition to medication, for me, I have to have it very simple, which we do discuss in the book. I really had to break it down and look at the foundation and look at its core. So it's often exercise, eating, I'll say relatively healthy because I think that it's important to have treats in your diet as well. And I don't even like to call them treats because you get into a bad mindset there, but to have things that, you know, treats. Um, yeah. So even just personal hygiene, like having a shower, that is self-care. And that's something that helps me cope as well. Those positive coping techniques that are breaking it down. I know we always say, like, have the chocolate bar, have the bubble bath, um, paint, and those can be really great activities for dealing with your mental health. But I think there's a foundational layer before you even get to those things, which is where you are exercising, you are eating healthy, you are showering, um, possibly even reaching out to people if you need to. It's it's like a core layer before you can even move past that. And that's what helps me.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

You talk about self-care in the book, and and I think this is a really interesting topic because I hear lots of different kinds of understandings or or perceptions, views on what self-care is. And I'm I'd be really interested to hear for the both of you when you say self-care, what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_03 10:08

Uh so to me, self-care is almost like you are the little bird's egg in a nest. You're doing what it is you need to do to look after yourself in that moment. So it's like self-love. And some people in my world often confuse narcissism with self-love. And I think the two are completely unrelated, and I get rather frustrated with that. But it's showing yourself kindness. It's okay to have a bad day, it's okay to struggle. It's okay if maybe today you don't want to have a shower, or instead of having the banana, you're gonna have the carbs. That's 100% okay because you're allowing yourself to be human and you're putting yourself in that nest and you're comforting yourself in what you need in that moment. And that might look different in different moments depending on what you're feeling or what you're experiencing. So having room to kind of wiggle around and just really listen to yourself, turn the chatter off that's going on around you and see what do I need in this moment, and then giving it to yourself.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

I love that. What do I need in this moment and then giving it to yourself? It's really great, Megan. Thank you, Christy. Any thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 11:17

So um, yeah, for me, self-care is getting to that place or doing that thing or whatever it may be. It's so that you feel good, like getting back to that feeling good. I find sometimes we get such a hustle, especially with someone who's had a background in anxiety. Um, that hustle, go, go, go, like I'm not doing enough. Sometimes the self-care is just stay taking a step back and just being like, okay, what can I do right now that it's gonna make me feel really good? And what that usually leads to is what works for me is finding something that also brings me joy. So I'm feeling good. Like, what does it mean to feel good in your body? Like, what is it gonna be, you know, that little that 20-minute cat nap? Is it gonna be that meditation? Is it gonna be I'm gonna, you know, look up this recipe that I've never made before and just do that and totally distract my mind and turn off from the outside world and just, you know, get really present with myself and just getting back to, you know, it's not um it's not that I have to do more to feel good. It's how do I feel good and like right now as I am, because I am enough. And then that joy just kind of kind of um gets attracted to in those moments of feeling good. So self-care for me, like like Megan said, setting that foundation and just getting really down to the nitty-gritty of okay, what's gonna make me feel so fabulous right now? What's gonna make me feel so energetically high vibe and really attract that joy? Because when we're in that state, if you've ever been in that moment where it's like, okay, like it's a it's like a really, really crappy day, and I am just seeing more crap coming at me. And then you're like, okay, you kind of step back and you're like, okay, I'm attracting this. But if you stand back and you're like, I'm feeling good in this moment no matter what, like I'm choosing to feel good. I'm gonna go and take that five minute break, and then you're gonna attract more joy. So I find for self-care, it's really key to find those moments where you're you're gonna feel good no matter what happens, right? So choosing the joy over anything else that comes up and really, really committing to that for yourself because nobody else can do that for you, right? You have to, it's a choice that you make to do to for your for your self-care, like Megan said, your self-love. So that's what's really important with when I think of when I think of self-care.

SPEAKER_05 13:53

I think that's really powerful. I I think I a hundred percent agree. You know, it is about choice. And and even even the smallest choices in those moments, like the choice of how we frame something, right? Um, I had an experience recently around my finances, and and I do, you know, you it's like I was having a moment coming, having a moment of scarcity around something, and then all of a sudden I got an email about my phone bill from when I was in Bali on my last trip. And I knew my phone bill was going to be high. Like I told and I made choices when I was in Bali around using data while I was there. And I was like, okay, I'll just deal with it when I get home. It's just money, I'll make more, right? And typically that's my attitude, and it's like not a problem. But you know, the how you frame your experiences in life, like the, you know, whether it's like whatever the ex, you know, whatever the circumstances are. And, you know, am I, do I choose to believe not like it's a truth, that things are happening for me. And so whatever the circumstances are, I can like, I can locate myself and like, okay, I mean, I I may not see the whole picture, but I I can see how this is really, you know, I could let I could just be with things as they're unfolding. And it's like that that email was going to come in with that phone bill regardless. But when you're coming from abundance, it's not a problem. And when you're coming from scarcity, it's like you, you know, you go to a very different place with it, right? So I think that whole conversation around choice is powerful. And and, you know, I know for myself the the conversation around gratitude, you know, and and really practicing gratitude is was a game changer in my life. Uh and I also, you know, I've been following lately the work of a doctor from Vancouver, Gabor Matei, who really does a lot of work in the space of trauma. Um, and and one of the things that he said in a clip that I watched recently was that one of the challenges that we have as human beings is it's really difficult for us to be in another, like understand another person's as lived experience of life. And so what would you so and I and I understand I, you know, that we've all been through our own challenges around mental health. Um, but what do you say to someone who's really in the middle of it still, right? And who's still really struggling day in and day out, maybe doesn't have the same kind of tools because for them it may not seem like there's even a choice available to them.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Yeah, I mean, even in saying like what I think about self-care now and saying that it's a choice, like going back to my 22-year-old self, like if I were to say that to myself, I would have either felt, you know, very um, I don't want to say offended, but very like taken aback. And it could really take me out. Um where now I see it in the perspective of like how empowering it is to have a choice, how empowering is it to have that control over your thoughts and your energy. And I think the biggest thing for me, looking back as if I were talking to you, you know, when I was in, you know, the thick of it, would just to be, you know, give myself grace, like allow myself to just be not so much in the way of you know, digging yourself deeper into what you're feeling, but just just and I talk about this in the book, is like, okay, observing what you're thinking right now, just be an observer. Like if you're feeling upset, okay, recognize that. Like, look at it. You don't have to do anything with it. Just if your thoughts are going, oh my God, I don't want to go to work today. Oh my God, I have so much to do with this assignment, my boss is on me, or you know, I'm gonna be late for the bus, like whatever that's coming up, recognize where that thought pattern's going. And sometimes that can be even be a lot on its own. But if you can just be with those thoughts and just be in that feeling without, you know, going deeper into it, that is in itself is such a huge, was such a huge stepping stone once I finally realized that like, hey, I what am I what am I allowing myself to think about right now? What am I allowing myself to to drive me like deeper into this this horrible thought pattern? So to say to someone who's in the thick of it, I would say just be and just like watch what you're you're thinking, watch your words, your behaviors, like just be an observer to it. If you're gonna do it, great, but just recognize what that is, right?

SPEAKER_05 18:19

That observer role, I think, is you know, in getting that that tool and the ability to kind of step outside yourself, I think is is so powerful. And and I really want to acknowledge the both of you because I think back to I'll be 44 next month. And uh when I think back to my 22-year-old self, she definitely did well, one, she did not have the awareness that the two of you do do. And it's it's not about comparisons or anything like that, but I think it is about acknowledging when people are, you know, have done the work and put in the time. And and uh, you know, I would say it's only been in the last few years that I really took on and and and there was other work to do first um before getting to that emotional layer and and feelings, because so much of life, you know, in survival mode is about, and and it's interesting, right? Because I think what it looks like for a human being to be in survival mode is not the same for for various different people, right? And and you I I don't think we ever know. Um I was actually I just read something, and I'm gonna read it to the both of you now because I think you'd really appreciate it. So there's this great book that I read called Notes on an Unhurried Journey. And um and the this passage is about uh emotional illness. So it says, it seems a pity that the human body cannot proclaim its emotional illness or health by raising or lowering its temperature. Even a minor cold is reflected by an increase of one's temperature, and no matter how insignificant the illness, a fever will bring forth sympathy and care. But not so with an emotional upset. Here, more often than not, all but the most major difficulties are ignored. Nowhere is this more true than in the lives of our children. Should a child develop a fever, all kinds of measures are taken to ensure his comfort and improvement. No one would think of telling a child to behave himself and get rid of the flu. We would consider it insane for a parent to punish a child because he has measles. To run a fever forces the parent to take actions that will improve the child's health. What a blessing it would be if there were a thermometer to measure the emotional health of a child. We would, we who rush to our children's assistance when they have a fever might then also rush to our children's aid when they signal a lack of love or wonder or appreciation. If there were a way to alert us to a growing emotional difficulty, surely we would be better parents and better friends to our children. But there is no thermometer for the emotions, and we are left to gauge as best we can the emotional well-being of our children. Surely this is a condition as important as their physical well-being. Since there is no method for measuring our children's emotional needs, perhaps it would be wise for us to offer them a little extra love, a little extra care, and a little extra understanding just in case. And that got, I've got present to that because it's like we just never know what people are dealing with. And, you know, my mom is one of the most extraordinary people I've ever known. And um, you know, one of the things that she always used to say is like, no one sees the wheelchair on the inside. And so I think, you know, it's so important for people to be out in the work world doing the kind of work that Christy and Megan that you're out doing, because we need more people creating awareness around these conversations and and and uh giving people permission to be authentic about their as lived experience of being human beings, because let's just be straight, and this is my belief we we live in a world that traumatizes us. We are traumatized as human beings. And that, and I'm out to humanize that word because to me, trauma isn't I got raped or I lived in a war torn country. It is those things, but it's also our everyday experiences of not being loved and not being, you know, accepted or not experiencing belonging. And I think it's in, you know, for me, it's really important that people get the message that it's not this, oh, oh, you're either normal or you're mentally unwell. I think mental wellness is on a spectrum and we all move into different places at different points in our life. So I just really want to acknowledge and thank the both of you for the work that you've done on your own journeys to get you to the place where you're in a position to be able to provide leadership in the world for other people to be able to have a different experience of life.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Oh, thank you for sharing that with me, with with both of us. Um it's it's just, I'm just thinking back to like even in the darkest moments, like when I tell people the about the book that I'm writing and the things that I've experienced. And Megan, I'm sure you found the same thing that, you know, when you tell them, they're like, What? I would never have thought that about you. Like you're so happy, you're so positive. And it's like, this is why it's such a dangerous ill. Like mental health is a serious thing because anybody can put on a mask, you know, anybody can put on that facade and be like, you know what, I'm okay. Because we it we've been taught to be like, you know, be strong, be, you know, be happy. There's nothing to be sad about. I had a girlfriend come up to me and she's like, I have so much anxiety. And she's like, but I don't know why. Like I had a wonderful family, like I didn't have any like huge trauma. And I just said, stop making your anxiety less than, stop making it an insignificant thing. Any trauma that you go through is still trauma, whether it's you're in the schoolyard and you're younger, and some boy comes up and calls you ugly or your best friend calls you stupid. Like it can do something to you, especially when you take that on that as like a belief about yourself. And, you know, it's just there's like you said, there's this whole spectrum of what that looks like for everybody. And there's no one size fits all. And we talk about that in our book, like doing the comparison with going on medication and and me choosing not to. Like it's just there's a there's something out there that can help everybody, and to acknowledge that, you know, people are going through their own, their own stuff, their own, they're in their own world all on their own, despite being out in the world with other people and just having massive compassion and just realizing, you know, when people are having those bad days, they're going through something internally that are they're projecting out to to the outer world. So it's just, it's it amazes me. And you're right, this this trauma, uh, this word trauma, people think it needs to be this extravagant thing, but it's um we really like taking that extra love for for people and having that massive, massive compassion is like like being brought to tears listening to to you reading that out loud because it's just like we treat mental health so differently than we do like a physical illness. Um, and it's just um it breaks, it breaks my heart because there's so many people that need this work that are you know craving this work, and it's can be very shameful or very like shut out. And um yeah, so thank you for reading that again. That was very powerful.

SPEAKER_05 25:22

Yeah, you're so welcome. I um so one of the most powerful books I've ever read is by Luis Hay, and it's called You can You Can Heal Your Life, and and in that book she talks about like dis-ease, like that all of the diseases of the body can actually be sourced in our minds, and and in in it even goes through the thought patterns that lead to certain illnesses. And and she even has like a book where you can it's very powerful. And um, and and uh the idea of disease is like being a lack of ease in the mind, is what causes and and physiological challenges. And and that doctor I was referring to, Gabor Matei, he's got this amazing documentary that I just can't shut up about called The Wisdom of Trauma. Um, and and he says trauma isn't what happens to us, it's what happens inside of us as a result of what happens to us. And I think that's a really powerful way of looking at trauma because it's like two people can have the exact same outward experience, and how they're gonna internalize that is gonna be very different. So, well, what if we could give up the comparisons? What if we could just hold space and what if we actually uh you know had trauma-informed education and trauma-informed healthcare? And instead of, you know, solely treating the body, doctors also looked at, you know, the other uh things that were happening in, you know, persons, a person's whole well-being, right? All of the different aspects of their life. So um I I think it's like that that piece around permission is huge, right? And that you're out there sharing what you're up to and what you're creating and and with the people in your life, you you know, really does start to um break down the walls and and the perceptions that people have. And I think I can share from my own experience, you know, I was I was the epitome of fake it till you make it. Right. Like I, the level of self-hatred and self-loathing I had for myself up until 2016, when I really started my personal development journey. Um, and I had it like I had transformed a lot of those conversations, but really what was operating subconsciously was not that. And but you never would have known it. And it was shocking to most people, I think, in my life when when I became when I finally had the freedom to be authentic about what what my my experience of my life was like and how alone I felt for most of my life, because I've always been someone who's surrounded by people and appeared to be extremely confident because that was my greatest weakness. And there was no way, right? This is that whole conversation with Brene Brown around shame. It's like if if the thing that you're most if if shame is the belief that there's something about you that, if known by other people, would cause you to not be loved, accepted, or belong, then those parts of yourself that you can't share those with anyone. And so then you you become trapped and so alone in what it is that you're dealing with. So just thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for being out there in the world having this conversation because it's very close to my heart. And um it just brings me a lot of um joy to see, you know, new young leaders out there in the world um really taking this conversation to the next level. Megan, anything for you?

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Um well, I would say I think I come from a bit of a different perspective because my full-time job is working in corrections. So there are a lot of people in corrections who have mental health issues or who might be off with mental health issues, and the stigma is just appalling. Even doing this podcast, I was a little bit nervous to be coming on here and saying that I have mental health issues because I know if anybody hears it, all of a sudden I'm gonna be put into that. I'll be marginalized. But I think it's important to do because the more we talk about it, then the more comfortable people get opening up about it. And there might be some people who are struggling that might then approach me and that starts the dialogue. But I do find working specifically in corrections, it's just it really is like I can't think of another word other than appalling for Howie. It feels like everybody has some sort of mental health issue, but nobody wants to talk about it. And even just coming out and saying, like, I have anxiety, I have depression, there is shame with that. And it almost feels like someone's gonna say, Oh, well, you're just seeking attention. Well, no, I'm not. This is my lived experience, this is what I'm going through. And sometimes you go through the day and you just want somebody to know, I'm not feeling so great today. I'm feeling low. It was really hard for me to get out of bed and come to work, or hey, guess what? I didn't go to work today because I decided to take what I refer to as a mental health day because I'm not feeling great, and I don't want to have to pretend like everything's okay. But you have it's it feels like you have to pretend like everything is okay. So I think if we continue that dialogue, which is my hope with this book, is to kind of bring this slowly into corrections and maybe shift that mindset. We'll see, one step at a time, but it would uh that's certainly one of my goals.

SPEAKER_05 30:51

It's so interesting that you talk and thank you and like really acknowledge the courage it takes to have this conversation, especially you know, in when you work in that kind of environment. And it's interesting because the part of that documentary I was sharing, and I if you haven't had an opportunity to see it, ladies, I I strongly recommend it watching it. But they talk specifically about incarceration and about prisons and a project that they're running down in the United States, and that you know, the using the ACES assessment, so the adverse childhood experiences, right? And that the majority of people that are incarcerated score very high on the ACES assessment because they have dealt with you know high levels of trauma, and including, you know, challenges around mental health and mental well-being and well, the impacts of the trauma that they experience. So um it takes courage, absolutely, to confront, especially in in when there's institutionalized points of view about about human beings and about um how people are or aren't, right? And so I really acknowledge you, Megan, for saying no, you know, I get I am scared or I am nervous or I am unsure about uh this and I'm going to um and I'm gonna speak my truth anyway, because then you know it gives other people the permission to do um to do the same. And I remember when I was, I started like this journey around the time I was 38 years old, and I I end up finding this quote by Martin Luther King from that time. And he says, You may be 38 years old as I happen to be. And one day some great opportunity stands before you and calls you to stand up for some great principle, some great issue, some great cause. And if you refuse to do it because you are afraid, if you refuse to do it because you want to live longer, you're afraid that you will lose your job, or you are afraid that you will be criticized, that you will lose your popularity, or you're afraid that someone will stab you or shoot at you or bomb your house. So you refuse to take the stand. Well, you may go on and live until you are you are 90, but you're just as dead at 83 as you would be at 90. And the cessation of breathing in your life is but the belated announcement of an earlier death of the spirit. So I say that to you as a, you know, as an encouragement to, you know, yeah, sometimes there will be an adversity when we stand for things in in life, but um, the greater gift of being able to live our truth and and and have an impact in the world and make a difference for people, I think um for me that's always kind of been what pushes me forward in the face of adversity or challenges is like, you know, what do I what am I here for? What was I what do I exist for? Why was I created? And um it seems to me that through your own experiences dealing with mental health, uh that you found a purpose that, you know, is is is moving you forward in your lives powerfully.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Yeah. Well, and only I feel like only if I make a difference for one person, that's still one person who I made a difference for. And there also might be differences though that I don't see, right? Like with the ripple effect, because they could then go on and make a difference for somebody else. So I know that even if I'm not always seeing a difference, there's one that's being made.

SPEAKER_05 34:21

Yeah. Absolutely. They say every person impacts it minimally 200 other people. So I invite you to consider that the impact that you've had already is much larger than you could even imagine. Um yeah, and and will continue to grow really beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

I certainly hope so. That's our goal with this book.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

I'm always curious. One of the things that you talk about in um, you know, in talking about the book is learning to trust your intuition. And I feel like this is something that I'm still uh, you know, beginner's mind about and like learning because I've been someone who um who's really like been a lot, like caused a lot or taken actions from my mind versus kind of like my intuition or you know, um, and as I'm kind of exploring this more, I'd be really curious to kind of know your thoughts on like what does it mean to trust your intuition? And how do you know if if you're not someone who's like been guided by your intuition, like how do you know what that looks like or or feels like or what the experience of being guided by your intuition is?

SPEAKER_03 35:28

So for me, that was more I found that I was constantly asking other people when I was making decisions, hey, what do you think about this? Should I buy this or shouldn't I buy this? Should I have an apple for my snack or a banana? And then I realized, hello, this is my life. I'm the expert of my life. They don't know the entire situation. So why do I think they're more educated on this topic than I am? I know what I had for breakfast, so I know if I could have the apple or the banana for lunch. I shouldn't have to go, well, this is what I had for breakfast, this is what I ate yesterday, this is what I had the day before, this is why I'm thinking I should have an apple, this is why I'm thinking I should have a banana. Why am I giving them all this information when I already know it? They're not more educated than I am on my life. And once I realized that, I was able to really trust that I was making the right decision for myself because it's my life and I have all of that knowledge.

SPEAKER_05 36:28

I love that. I've like just present to like how much of my life has been kind of deferring to other people, right? So I really hear that in what you're saying, Megan. It's like, you know, um so like trusting yourself to know yourself best. And it's interesting because I think there's a there there is an element of that. But one of the things I've also discovered on my journey is like in terms of what I'm capable of, you know, when I was earlier on in my journey around falling in love with myself and really dealing with myself, my self-worth and esteem, like we always say, oh, like you know yourself best. And yeah, I think there is an element of truth in that. But uh, but when it comes to what we're capable of, I think sometimes people see us more clearly than we see ourselves because we're viewing ourselves through our monkey mind, our internal dialogue, whatever the the internal chatter, whatever, you know, lots of there's different names for it, but um our view of ourselves is not pristine, right? We we we view ourselves through all of the caca that we have and and thoughts about ourselves. So I um I it's interesting because thank you for for saying that, because I think there's like some inquiry there and something to look at there. Like, where is the balance of that, right? Like trusting myself to know what's best for me, but also being willing and open to um, you know, stepping outside of maybe my comfort zone or being willing to take on challenges or things in life that I may not necessarily believe in my until I develop that belief in myself, because there was a shift for me. There was a defining moment, you know, in like January of 2020 where it went from wow, all of these people see me as a global leader, and I'm just gonna take actions consistent with how they see me to, oh, I know myself as that. Like that's who I am. And um, but I so it's it's interesting that that kind of balance between those two.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

Yeah, and I don't know what would cause that shift. Like that must have been a lot of internal work you did to get there, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_05 38:33

Yes, a lot of internal work. That's okay. Uh yeah, and a lot of like, you know, it started with I remember I was in a leadership training program back in 2017 and I was on a call on my way into work. This is back when I worked at the airport, you know, I before I became an entrepreneur. And um, and my coach said to me, I don't think you're present to the impact that your crappy view of yourself has on the people around you. And I request that you go talk to those people and like get what it's like for them when, you know, so for your kids, your your mom, like the whatever, the other people in your life. And and kind of being a little bit smart alecky or glib, you know, I was like, Well, Nathan, you're one of the people in my life. Why don't you know, what's the impact on you? And uh he got quiet for a few moments, which was very rare for this human being. He was never quiet. And he said, you know, Amber, I don't see what I'm about to say to you lightly, but what if Martin Luther never gave that speech? What if Gandhi never did what Gandhi did? Like I see a leader of their caliber and I'm waiting for her to show up. And in that moment, it was kind of like, well, I can keep taking actions from this crappy view I have of myself, right? And that's gonna, it's not right or wrong, but that's just gonna give me an experience of life that I've already had. Or I can live what I call live in other people's listening. So I had coaches, I had other leaders around me who saw something in me that I couldn't yet see in myself. And I just kept leaning into that. And even though it was uncomfortable and it caused me to have to deal with myself and confront views I had about myself and beliefs, because I believe we will never outperform our beliefs. And so, and and that observer, you're talking about that, Chrissy, right? That ability to say, oh, well, and and our beliefs are formed for a reason. You know, I had a belief for a long time that it was unsafe for me to ask for, like it was shameful for me to ask for help. There were reasons that belief got formed and they protected me at periods in my life when I needed it. But I'm 43 years old, I don't need that belief anymore. So, what's a belief that I could create and take actions from to create new neuropathways? Oh, okay, well, you know, when people help me, they serve humanity. Right. So that's an you know, and that's a new belief that I could take path that I could take actions from. So you sure absolutely right, Megan. It didn't happen overnight, it took a really long time. And I'd be, you know, I it it's like not, I don't have anything handled about any of that. It's an ongoing journey of self-discovery and inquiry and kind of trueing, you know, truing myself up. And I think it's a practice if I if I could offer anything to anyone who's in that journey is it's just taking on, it's like working out at the gym and building muscles. It's like that daily practice of awareness. And uh I, you know, the interview I had last week with this amazing woman from Australia, she said she talked about fearlessly loving yourself through your conscious incompetence. So once you start to become aware or learn a new skill, you go through a period of time where you're aware, you're conscious of something, but you're still not competent at it. And if we can, you know, Chrissy, you talk about grace, right? If we could love ourselves through that period of time until we become competent, um, that makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Yeah. And the thing for me, like to get from point A to point B, like it took a lot, it took something, right? It doesn't just happen overnight, but it's a commitment that you make to yourself. And going back to the intuition, you kind of like you go, you have those moments of so like you're in the hole so deep, and you're like, you have to ask yourself, you're like, okay, am I gonna be in this spot six months from now, a year from now, two years from now, five years from now? Is this where I wanna be? Is this what I want to do with my life? And you you think you're like, I'm here for a reason. And you know, you just you going back to intuition, you just what if you consider anything that you do, any direction you take, what if none of it's wrong? What if it's just getting you moving forward? If even if you're not going, you know, in the exact direction, at least you're still going forward. You're not stuck, right? And it does, it touch it takes a level of trust in yourself, a belief in yourself to get you where you want to go. But it's it's like listening to your passion, it's going back to that self-care, what feels good in this moment, like what is my, you know, my body even saying to me? What is my, you know, my mind's, you know, trying to kind of distract me here. But I have a life that I want to live, you know, I want to take that trip. I want to, you know, go live in another country. I want this, you know, I want that job, that manager position, or I would love this friendship or relationship. Like the only one that can get you there is you. So when you take that moment and you're like, okay, this is where I want to be and I'm here. What do we gotta do to get there? And then that's when you just say, whatever I do, it's gonna work. And even if it's, you know, I stumble or like it's, you know, I, you know, I come to a dead end, that's okay. I'm still moving forward. I can blaze a new path or I can try this other thing. Like, we have so much. Life to live that it's we have time to make mistakes, we have time to fumble, we have time to do everything. So, yeah, just having grace with yourself and really just choosing to commit to okay, every day is getting better. It may not be substantially better, I may not be perfect, I'm may never be perfect, but I'm still moving, I'm still growing, I'm still taking those baby steps to who I know I want to be and who I'm meant to be and my purpose here. So it's just yeah, just having grace and just it's a journey. It's literally a journey. Like we don't know what it's gonna bring, but you just it's the alternative is no way, no thank you.

SPEAKER_05 44:48

No thank you. I love it. Yeah, I love that you said, you know, it's like you take a step in a direction, there will like what if there was no wrong direction, right? What if like whatever step we took was part of, you know, this is life. There is no nothing after this. Like that's a that was a great awareness, right? It's like, yeah, oh, this is in my practice life. This is it, this is life, this is the journey of being a human being, and and and we have so much more in common as human beings when you look at our shared experience of being human, right? Like in terms of the way our minds operate and and things that, you know, not that culture and and and different genders and and and sexualities and all of these things that we might look at that distinguish us from other human beings aren't meaningful and don't matter. Of course they do. But like in terms of what it is that we do share as human beings, that there are there is a common experience of being human that we all go through. Um and if we could learn to have compassion, and and maybe I can't exactly 100% understand all of the the intricacies of your journey being human, but I can I could have compassion and hold space for. And and I love for me that what it is to love someone is to grant being to them, you know, to accept them just as they are and just as they're not in this moment. And that's a commitment I have that I fail against every day. I literally fail against that commitment every day because it's really challenging to be in relationship with humanity and human beings and the world and accept things that really are not aligned with your values and you know, like wanting people to have be treated with dignity and then like being permanently upset because as human beings, we don't treat each other with dignity, right? Like, but it's like I'm gonna keep that commitment, even though I fail against it every day, because that's part of my journey and my growth to become the kind of person who can be with anyone at any time, right? And and you talk about the internal work, Megan, you know, for it's like that work on what what do I need to do over here that gets in the way of being that commitment for others? And and what do I and gets in the way of me being that commitment for myself? Because guess what? If like love is acceptance, then you know it's accepting me just as I am in this moment as well.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

Yeah. And if you don't put in that internal work, well then what? You stay stuck. And is this how you want to spend the rest of your life? When you're 90 and you look back, are you gonna be okay that you lived your life like this? If you are, then okay. But I always look at it from that perspective of when I'm looking back on my life, what do I want to have accomplished? Okay, so do that now.

SPEAKER_05 47:36

It's a great view. Amazing. Well, I just again want to take a moment and really honor and acknowledge the both of you and thank you. And I really uh look forward to the book being published and being able to get a copy of it and and and my audience being able to read it too, and just uh just keep leaning in, you know, just keep keep growing and expanding and sharing yourselves and just thank you um for all of the people's lives that you're impacted already and and the many, many more. We will never know, I'm sure, the full impact of of you and your leadership and your your stand in the world. And I just really uh thank you for taking your time to be here and be on the show.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Thank you so much for having us. It's been so much fun. Thank you, Amber.

SPEAKER_05 48:25

Yeah, thank you for everyone listening and joining us. Thank you for being part of this. You'll you'll be able to find out how to connect with Christy and Megan and when the book is published. Also, a link to how to get a copy of the book in the show notes. I love you all. I'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out what wouldamberdo.com.