SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard. Each week, Amber dances in conversation with inspirational leaders out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly created life of service to others. And now, here is your host.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Welcome back, everyone. Welcome back to What Would Amber Do? I am just overjoyed this morning to have on the show Jackie Haig. Jackie is the founder of When in Doubt, Dance It Out, and the creator of Journey with Joan and a full-time care partner to her mom Joan, who is just the most delightful human being ever. Jackie's commitment is to give others a safe space to share themselves authentically and to share the gifts of healing and mindset. And beyond all of that, Jackie has been working with me in my business for over a year now. And you may, she's going to open her mouth in a minute, and then you might be like, oh, I recognize that voice. Because Jackie is also the wonderful person who lent her voice to the new intro and outro for the show. Jackie, just uh, you know, I'm so blessed and grateful to have you on the show this morning. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Good morning, good morning, good morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

This is your host. This is your host. Oh my goodness. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Yeah, I um I don't know why we haven't done this sooner. It's so funny. Because I've been my things. It's one of those things where it's just like, oh, yeah, that should have happened way sooner than now. And everything has its divine timing. I know that, but it's so great to have this time to speak with you about the, you know, you've had a really incredible journey. You've you've been all over the place, you've had lots of different, you know, chapters to your career and and the different ways in which you contribute into the world. And I'd love to hear you share some of that with us.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Well, back in the day. Well, first off, we have the same cup. Don't quit your daydream.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Yes, we love that we have the same cup. This cup is coming with me to Bali, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yay!

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Yay. Yeah. My girlfriend gave it to me for my birthday. What about you?

SPEAKER_03 2:29

My girlfriend Kathy gave it to me. I don't, I I can't say what it was for. Probably a birthday or something. It might have been a no-day gift, but it definitely came from my my dear friend Kathy, who I've known since I was 12 years old.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

So yeah. My friend Tracy Trudell bought this for me for my 50th birthday. Don't quit your daydream. I'm like, okay, that's great. So what am I supposed to talk about?

SPEAKER_03 2:56

You are telling us about your journey to getting to today.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

So okay. So I am Canadian. I was born here in Canada. Um, I had, you know, I lived out my dream as an entertainer. So tap, jazz, uh, musical theater um entertainer. And along that, you know, acting, yada yada yada. Um did some acting and TV commercials and that sort of thing. And um I went to Los Angeles. My my my uncle lives in in California. So I'd been there before and always dreamed about living there. And uh yeah, met a man, fell in love. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

I don't know anything about meeting a man and falling in love in California.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Oh my god, I just saw your pictures, they look amazing. Um, yes, your man's from California. And yeah, so you know, we lived there for 20 years, and I have a son and was married and then got divorced and then came back to Canada about 10 years ago and discovered my mom had dementia. And so I've been a caregiver for my mom for the last 10 years, going on 11 years. Yeah. So, you know, and in doing that, you know, went through a divorce and like, you know, huge life change coming from back from you know, California where it's warm all the time, coming back to Canada for the winters.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

I'm like, why is it gray? It's always gray here. California's like, oh, I'm so depressed. I'm like, go outside. What are you talking about? I'm back in Canada with the gray skies.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Yeah. So I'm not I'm not gonna miss the Canadian winters. Um I'm though have nothing going on about saying that. Um I know that some people here love Canadian winter, but I just have never been one of those people. You know, that's a huge change, right? Like when you're you you're such an entertainer by nature, Jackie. I mean, it's just kind of part of who you are, and and it is part of the new business that you've created in in in terms of your movement classes and and you know, the platform one in doubt dance it out, which we're definitely going to talk about. But I can imagine, you know, coming back here after, you know, leaving a place that you clearly loved. I mean, other than being married, you were in California for 20 years. And I know from some of our conversations how how much you really enjoyed your life there. Going through that transition after the, you know, your marriage ended and then coming back to Canada, and then finding out that Joan had Alzheimer's. I mean, that must have been a fairly challenging time in your life.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Absolutely. Yes. And I came back home to start a business with my brother, actually, and took all the actions to start that business, and then we didn't end up pursuing it. And then in doing all that, um, you know, you just then discovered that my mom was having these memory issues. And I'm like, what the heck's going on? And and uh, you know, I always felt like she was a little bit depressed, but she had lost a lot of people. Um, and both her children were going through separation and divorce. So, you know, but she lost her sister. She went through so many people died, you know, in fields. So I just thought my mom was just depressed or worried for my brother and I at the time. And um, and then came to realize that she was having all these memory issues. And that's, you know, that's another part. I think that, well, I don't know, my thing with my mom, I think that what got her into the dementia was was depression, was isolation, was, you know, I think that's where she went with her mind, right? And I had no idea, um, because I was so, you know, I was coming out of such a depressing time. You know, you go, you don't go into marriage wanting to get divorced, and for a lot of years it was fabulous, but it we just lost our way in the end, you know. So yeah, so it was, and you know, and the people like, oh my God, you're going, you know, I'm in my childhood home. I'm in my bedroom.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

Talk, talk about I didn't plan on being here, you know, later in life.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Oh, yeah, all those things, right? Like, what the hell am I doing here? And how I like, yeah, I should have done this, I should have done that. And and then I got to the point, you know, we went through big life changes and huge depressions, you know, drinking too much, you know, to deal with the situation. And then, you know, through the journey of personal growth and all the courses and everything, like this time was a time for to rebuild myself, right? And to really come from a place of gratitude and you know, go for 90 days without any alcohol. Because I was like, what? I don't think I've ever gone a week without alcohol because that's just how I was raised, you know? And that's okay. But when you're when you're drinking to deal with stuff or not to deal with stuff, and it's like I didn't even know I had a problem, right? And I'm not saying, but anyway, all the all the steps along the way. Like I'm just so grateful that I have a home to be in with my mom, you know.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Well, I don't think, you know, my you know, my mom's journey around um dissociative identity disorder. And and my mom says, like, I think we all dissociate and we do it in different ways. And so, I mean, I think drinking is a fairly common, and and unfortunately, like because it's so socially accepted and it's part of our culture, right? As you said, like that's just how you grow up in your family, and you know, like many other people, we um sometimes can't see when it when it becomes a way of dissociating from you know, from depression or or hardship or and it's interesting you're talking about dementia. I I don't, you know, in Alzheimer's, I don't know a lot about those meta like them as a medical condition, but I could imagine that if you went through a significant amount of trauma and loss, that there might be things that you might not want to remember. Because it's just too painful to remember if you especially if, you know, I mean, for many of our for our parents, the generations before them, they weren't given the tools to talk about these things. You just kept going. And, you know, like big wars or you know, the depression, like the financial depression that many people went through and and all of that stuff, like, you know, but different ways of raising kids and parenting and things that maybe no longer socially acceptable but were when our kid parents were younger. People didn't talk about those things, they weren't given tools to handle it, right? So I can imagine that sometimes it might seem easier to forget, or that the brain would just, you know, I mean, my mom consciously create 25 different personalities, right? The brain did that as a wet protection mech protective mechanism. So if you don't have uh access to tools and the ability to be able to process heavy emotions or challenging situations, I can imagine that the brain would, in an effort to protect us, would have us just perhaps forget some things.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah. So, you know, what kind of guilt was she holding on because she wasn't there with her sister? You know, and then what did that bring up? Because I know that my mom, you know, not to make this about my mom, but you know, I know that, you know, when her father died, when she was here in England, she wasn't with her father, you know. So even though she might have guilt for not being with her sister, like where does that trigger somebody in their life with other things?

SPEAKER_03 10:28

It's interesting you say not to make it about your mom, but I I think a big part of the last 10 years of your life has been about your mom, right? And about the journey of like, you know, we've had lots of conversations. So you are so dedicated and committed to, you know, finding ways to reverse her Alzheimer's, looking for other solutions, like uh, and at the same time, how does Jackie have a life? And how does Jackie keep creating what it is that she wants to create in the world beyond the role that you have as your mom's care partner? And I know a little bit more about this world from some of the the I've had the pleasure and and the privilege of working in the healthcare sector over the last couple of years and and especially since last November, around doing a lot of work with the like um patients' families and care partners, working groups out in Durham, and just really getting the perspectives of of those groups of people who support loved ones. And um, I you know, I'd love for you to share a little bit about what has that journey with Joan has been like? And I know you've like created a platform to share that with people because you've got this really big commitment, Jackie, that other care partners, you know, know that they're not alone and that they have supports. And but what's that been like for you when you're trying to, I mean, you keep living your life at the same time being there to take care of your mom and as well find solutions to minimize the impact of her dementia or reverse it even?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Well, you know, in the beginning, it was, you know, you go through all the like disbelief, right? Disbelief when her license is being taken away and you know, you're just like in disbelief. You're like, what the hell are you talking about? My mom's fine. And then realization it's like, oh yeah. Like, well, I actually haven't been in the car with her because when I come home, I'm like, oh drive mom, and you know, just so the denial of it all, right? The anger, then the anger of the of it all, and then the frustration, the frustration, the sadness because she's not understanding what I'm saying to her, and I'm getting mad at her, and I'm like, like, what the hell am I getting mad at her for? She's she's frustrated and upset with herself, you know. So, like all of the emotions that go through, and you know, through the personal growth that program that I did take, mom and I did go to the dementia, they call it the dementia village in Holland. Um, it's called Hugabe, and it's a care facility. On the outside, it looks like a normal care home, but on the inside is 50% outdoors and 50% indoors, and they have people with Alzheimer's living there. Um, they put uh like-minded group groups of people together in one condo with a caregiver, and they get to roam around this village, like you know, this it's set up like a village inside this care facility. And mom and I went there because I wanted to bring something like that to Canada. Um so I just wanted to share that because I know that you worked on the you know the project in Durham, and and I really wanted to bring something like that to Canada. And I had, you know, a lady in town that we were working with, and we started taking those steps to do that. Um but what I found, and then you know, COVID and and all that stuff happened, but you know, I must stand that it's 2022, and there's something out there that I don't know about that's gonna elevate my mom's health, you know. And in the beginning of the pandemic, like she was literally disappearing from me, and I was like, oh my god, I can't do this anymore. I'm gonna have to put her somewhere. And I couldn't because the pandemic had had hit, and and then I started praying, you know, praying and just really stand that there's something out there, and I discovered products that help. Um, but in the beginning, I was yeah, I was upset, I was mad, I couldn't believe it. I made the doctor like do a scan. Like, how do you know? Maybe she just had a stroke. Like, how do you know she has dementia? Like because they, you know, they get you to do these tests, like you know, draw a clock and what day is it, and all these standardized tests. And I'm like, she's just confused. So yeah, there was lots of lots of things that I that I did, and I was mad for a long time. And then I'm like, you know, because I didn't powerfully choose to come home and take care of my mom with dementia. I came home to start a business with my brother.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Right. Um I'm kind of present too, like, you know, especially going through, you know, the loss of your marriage, and and then you know, you come back, you have this this goal, this this vision of creating this business with your brother, and the loss of that, and then the loss of your your mom, like not that you lost her physically, but you know, who you knew her to be. Um all like, and and then you know, watching her go through that process and and how painful that must be to watch a loved one literally losing. I mean, our memories are our access to our history and and in in a lot of ways our identity, who we who we think we are in the world. And yeah, so watching her lose that, it's like you know, you're kind of losing your mom as well. And um, and then we we don't do well, right? I think in like we're not comfortable with people being upset. And so, like, like just as a that's a general statement based on my experience, uh, as I've started to become more tapped in and more able to express my upset in life, and it's still an area of growth for me. But um like I can imagine at that time, Jackie, you know, I know that you've got a lot more tools now because of the personal development work that you've done, but probably at that time you may not have even had the ability to really express to other people what it was that you were going through, and probably had a lot of like, I should it should look this way or I should be gracious about it or whatever, and not even able to express your own. Because I've no I know that as uh as a mom myself. It's like um like over the years and or or not even so much as a mom, but I remember there was a period of time um with my own mom and her journey uh that I I was so angry about you know my lost childhood and that you know not having certain things that weren't prov you know weren't there for me. Uh, you know, I always had a roof over my head and food on the table and stuff like that. But and my my mom is the first person to say that there was a period of time when she was really deep in her healing from what happened to her as a child, that she just wasn't able to be there emotionally and and in other ways for me. And thankfully, you know, the source, the universe provided other people to come into my life at those times that could kind of hold my hand through some of that. And um, for the longest time, I couldn't express my anger about the situation regarding either of my parents because I was like, well, neither of them chose to have the things happen to them that happened to them. Like it's like, you know, Joan didn't choose to get uh, you know, Alzheimer's. Like, what how can I be angry with these human beings? And at the same time, there was this a child inside me. There was a part of me that was very angry. And I think it's a like, I think it's related and it's interesting this convert because I looked up the word fairness a little while ago. And it's we have, I think, this innate sense of fairness, justice, the way things are perhaps supposed to be. And it's probably all based on our past, but it doesn't change the impact when life doesn't go the way we expect it to go. Um, it does. We do, I think we do have the experience that something's like off. You know, there's the force is off in the universe. And um, I'm so blessed for me to have my mom when she was just so gracious when I when I I was being a real jerk to her for a few months. And I I just said, Mom, I'm just processing my anger and and it's not personal, it's not, I just have to let it out. And I'm really sorry if I'm taking it out on you. Um, you know, and that having that conversation freed up a lot of stuff. And she just said, Amber, you take as long as you need. She calls me Ambie. She goes, You take as long as you need. Yeah. I don't know if people know that publicly, but yeah, she um said, You take as long as you need. She goes, When I processed my anger, I had to hospitalize myself so I didn't harm myself or other people. So we have that ability to kind of bring humor to it in our family. But you know, Jackie, I really just want to acknowledge you. Um, because you could have put her in a home. Like a lot of people would have, right? Like a lot of people would have just been like, I'm not, uh, you know, it's my time, it's my life, I'm gonna take care of me. And and, you know, and you have, you know, sacrificed a lot inside of your commitment, not just to care for Joan, but also to the way in which you care for Joan, you know, making sure that you you're trying to not just care for her where she is, but elevate her health so that she can have a better quality of life. And I I think that's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Well, in the beginning, I was drinking a lot of beer. I was like, case of beer. First, I was shocked at the price of beer because I was living in the States. So I'm like, how much is this stuff? What? What are you talking about? You know, and then I realized, you know, uh, you're going through a case of beer like every two weeks, Jack. What's going on? You know, you alone. No one else is drinking it with you. So yeah, it was uh it was a lot of things. It was a lot of things coming home and realizing all that, you know, and then um you know, and walking around the house and taking out the garbage and doing all these things like, why am I doing all this stuff? Why me? Why me? Because I didn't powerfully choose to do that, and then through you know, through throughout it, um, after the big thing is after I accepted the fact that she had dementia, like this is how it is, then I could um just accept her for who she was in that moment, not for who she wasn't anymore.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

That's powerful. I could accept her who for who she was in that moment, not who she wasn't anymore. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

And really got present to, you know, like the personal growth and doing all the things, like instead of waking up and going, oh my god, how am I gonna make through this day? You know, and just like living into you know, wishing it was different, right? Wishing I was in a different place, you know, waking up in my bedroom that I grew up in, going, oh my god, how did I get here? You know, to waking up in the morning, you know, and just having such a profound sense of gratitude that I have a home. Right. There's so many people that don't have a home, that don't have families, you know, that I have my mom still, you know, um, that she's with me, you know. My dad in 2006, and you know, I have such a profound sense of gratitude for him, and I feel him all the time. And like, you know, I've just started studying Reiki, so it's a whole new dimension of energy that I'm present to. And um, yeah, so you know, just writing those, and in the beginning, it was like what do you mean right that I'm grateful for, grateful for my pillow? Like it's like, how the hell do I write this? What are you talking about? Be grateful. What do you mean? You know, but as I've done it as a practice with my meditations in the morning and you know, the gratitude and and not drinking, and not that I don't drink, because I do drink, but but I drink if it's it's not to numb the pain, it's not to you know suppress my emotions. Um and uh like I didn't even realize that that's what I was doing, right? I dumbed myself down for so many years um in my marriage because I was so insecure. People were like, I remember one friend, sorry, you know, one friend said to me, Oh, you're gonna come out to dinner with Jackie and Jackie and Joe as my ex-husband. And and she's and and her husband had told me this, she didn't want to come out with us because Jackie just gets drunk. And I was like, I was like, whoa. I've never saw myself as that, but to have someone refer, you know, I was like, oh, and then I thought, well, she's just not fun anyway.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

It's like the minute someone doesn't fit our cognitive map, right? We just like discount them. I love it. It's not a Jackie phenomenon, by the way. That's a human one. So great.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah, well, and even when I stopped drinking, there's certain people that or you know, when I stopped for a it was like people like, oh come on, just have one drink, you don't have a problem. I'm like, I know I don't have a problem, but maybe I do have a problem. Like it was like everybody else around me too was freaking out because they didn't know who I was if I wasn't that girl, right? And um, and then I didn't know if I like um am I a funny person? Am I funny? Like, yeah, I'm funny just being sober, like that's who I am.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Like, I'm a smart person, I'm a funny person, I'm a talented person, like I'm okay without alcohol, like I can function, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

So, anyways, it just digressed, but no, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Thank you for sharing that, Jackie. And thank you for being willing to be vulnerable about all of the journey, right? Not in in um when I think about you know, seeing you with your, you know, for those of you that don't know, Jackie and I do lots of things together. We're on book clubs and we used to do like accountability club in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

I'm her groupie. I'm her groupie.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

She says I'm doing this, and I go, okay, yes. I'm a groupie. You know, it's so funny. I had to like really accept that about my leadership for a while too, right? I'd like be asking people why why they would participate in certain things that I was creating, and and people just be like, because it's you and I'm a yes to you. It doesn't really matter what the thing is. And so just thank you. I'm I'm honored.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Well, um, and I want to thank you, Amber, because you, you know, you and our partnership that we've created over the past, you know, whatever it's been two years, like, you know, you have allowed me to contribute to you and you have allowed me to, you know, just be who I am and always show up authentically. And and you know, just like I've just I've just expanded because of our creation together, like in so many different ways. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

You are welcome. I uh I love that you keep, you know, my big commitment is that people live a created life of their own design, and I love watching you in that exploration. And I know it's hasn't been easy at times, and I know that you've bumped up against beliefs and and the shoulds and the, you know, and and I just keep watching you, Jackie. Just keep you're so willing to keep looking, even when it's uncomfortable at times, and and saying, well, how can I maybe do things differently? Or what else is available? And and just keep leaning in. Um, I think about even where where you were a couple of years ago when we started partnering together and and just the place that you're in and where you are now, and everything that's kind of been unfolding in your life and the new people that we've both attracted to our circle and and how that's kind of, you know, it's been fun to watch um people who are in my life kind of, you know, take a bigger role in your, you know, you're creating partnership with them. And and it's just really beautiful. I love that about social networks and and really it's not really like relationships and how they organically grow. So I uh I'm I'm very proud of you.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Thank you. And most people don't want to share. Like most people are like, you know, oh, you're hanging out with so-and-so, she's my cat. You know what I mean? Whereas you're like so open to you, like, oh, you want to do this? You like you know, we had a partnership, you know, in in the working, working relationship, but just in who you are, like you just allow people to connect and you you share resources, and you know, there's no you against me, you know, it's like let's create together, you know. And one of the biggest lessons that I've just recently learned, and maybe I've I've always known, but like I really see now that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Like we're all connected. Like I am fortunate to have a home to take care of my mom, but when I go past that person who's on the street, I used to judge them like, oh, they're just a drugie, they're just this. It's like, no, we have no idea how people get there. You know, and I'm so grateful that like I want to help people to to you know to to know that there's there's a way out of that if they want to get out of that, you know, or to to give them a helping hand, you know, whether they're a caregiver struggling with taking care of someone with dementia, or whether they're just you know, their family, they have no family left, you know. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

No, I love well, no, though I love it. This whole point of these conversations is to kind of dance and and um I uh it's a thin line, you know, between here and there, wherever the here is and wherever the there is, right? And we're so quick to judge. I I watched this uh video of Dr. Gabor Mate recently, like this Temina Clip, I showed it on social media, and and in it he says, like, we have as human beings a very limited capacity to understand another person's journey. Like it's like, you know, in in his specifically talking about depression in this instance. He's like, you know, like depression's on a spectrum, and we've all dealt with depression at different points in our life, probably, you know, even if it's like experiencing being a little sad or whatever it is. Um, and for most people, they're able to move through it and you know, kind of get themselves to the other side. And inside of that, they have really, a really difficult time understanding other people who the depression is crippling and they they can't get themselves, it's like they wake up and it's like, you know, like for those people who've gone through, you know, more significant bouts of depression and stuff like that, that experience of moving through water or just like not being able to, and and so I I think even when we talk about shelterlessness, I think there it's there too. It's like, you know, even though most human beings have gone through difficult periods in life where maybe they haven't had as much money, times have been tough, whatever. By the grace of God, they haven't ended up on the street and dealing with whatever those people have dealt with. And so there's just limited capacity, I think, to be able to really um and and because we can't understand it, and I think there is sometimes an unwillingness to even try and understand it, then but there's something heartbreaking about it, I think, for us as human beings. We just numb it, we we just look away, right? We just not, and and you can include anything in that analogy, right? Whether it's drug addiction, shelterlessness, depression, um, people who are upset about the systems that we live in and and trauma and oppression. Like if we can't, if we can't fit other people's experience, even if that's people with transgender, these conversations about gender and pronouns, and you know, if we can't fit something into our map of the world, oftentimes it's just like we're gonna dismiss it or we're gonna ignore it or we're gonna make it wrong. Um, and you have such a beautiful capacity to be able to, and I think possibly as a result of your journey with Joan, um, you have a beautiful capacity, Jackie, to just, you know, understand other people and and share yourself and and be um share your heart with people.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yeah. Well, we're all one, right? We all bleed red. Yes. And we all poop.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

We all poop.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

That too.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Oh my god, I can't believe I just said this in the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Like, I'm not cutting it out of the show either. See, now they're uh immoralized for memorialized for eternity.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Um my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Yeah. You just uh like I had a conversation with Peter about a couple of weeks ago. I was just like going through some stuff in our relationship, and and it was I've shared this with you that I was upset a lot. And one of the things I realized is I was focusing on like the lacks instead of the gifts in our relationship. And so I took on, I haven't done a daily gratitude practice in a long time because I haven't really needed to. For the most part, like being like grateful, just like I really did. Like I'm clear, I rewired my subconscious brain, like I built new neural pathways around gratitude. And for the most part, I can express gratitude even when things like aren't going the way I wanted to. Like I can have, you know, so it's just like being grateful is kind of like a my my new norm, right? And I saw that in my relationship with Peter, I was not uh being grateful. So I took on and I I'm still doing it, sending him five things I'm grateful for every morning. And yesterday was our anniversary and um of the first day we met a year ago, and uh so we were, you know, hanging out on the phone because that's what we do. He like ordered me dinner from a distance. Like he's like, Yeah, just order yourself dinner, and and then we uh we started to try to watch a movie, but he fell asleep because that's often what happens because of the time change between the both of us. And anyway, um, I'd forgotten to write him my gratitude list yesterday morning, and and he said, Well, you can just say it to me now. And so I told him the five things I think I would end up getting saying more. And I said, I said, Oh, what are you grateful for in our relationship? He goes, I thought you'd never ask because I've been sharing with him, but like he I thought you'd never ask. So cute. And so he just like uh shared some really beautiful things with me that that he sees about me and and you know loves about me and is grateful for about me. And but one of the things he said is like, um, and you kind of touched on it, so thank you for for presencing it, just um my ability to like you know, the love people, but also like um how available I make when he says you make yourself so available to people. Um goes like I I don't think I've ever met anyone who makes themselves so available to the people in your life. And I often feel because there's a lot of people I care about and I are important to me and I consider like family, and so I often sometimes feel like I don't have there's not enough to go around, or I'm not, you know, prioritizing people or in um, but I think the people in my life know that if they really needed something, you know, that they picked up the phone or messaged me that I would be there, and um, so just think you are a safe space, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

You are a safe space and you are authentic and you all are vulnerable and you meet people exactly where they're at. You don't expect anything different from them. You give them a you give them a chance to create themselves newly every day. That's who you are.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Thank you. Um I think it's well, and I I get to keep maybe I get to every move. Um I get to keep, I think we like you know, I I discovered in you know my personal development journey, my truth that love is acceptance, like granting people being just as they are and they're as they're not, and you know, created a commitment that I would be that way with people, like all people. Um, and I break down against that commitment every day. Trust me, you can ask my kids. Um, because it's not normal, I think, to to love people from a place of acceptance, right? Like and it's challenging because we when people are just being who they are and who they're not in every moment of now, like oftentimes they're doing things that we don't like or like are not what we want, right? So how do you keep? But I think the more I'm able to love myself like that, and I know you've been on that journey as well, right? The more I'm able to be accepting of myself and love myself in every moment of now, just as I am and just as I'm not, I have way more capacity to love other people that way.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

And I and be kinder to yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Well, and I think I I loved people that way, but you know, it wasn't complete because that love didn't, you know, all of the people didn't also include Amber. Like you've got to give it and receive it. I'll love all of the other people like that, but not me. Me, I've got to fix it, change me, right? Like, yeah. You know, Jackie, I'd love to talk about because a big part of your journey with Joan and and just who you are is movement and dance, right? And and I kind of talked about it a little bit at the beginning, but I'd love to um because when I think about your journey with Joan, one of the words that kind of comes when I see the interactions, and I was starting to get to this earlier, and then we danced somewhere else, is like it's it's joyful watching you with your mom. Like I get a lot of joy. And um, I think Joan also gets a lot of like if you know, like my my experience of her is one that she's joyful, and um, and that's I I really believe that's created by you. And then she gets to to live in that and experience that. So, and I know that dance and singing and movement and you know those kinds of expression are a big part of that. Um, so have you always known that? Like, talk to me a little bit, talk to us a little bit about dance and the role that that plays in in your journey with your mom and your because you you also offer classes for other elderly people and you know, older adults and kids. And so talk to me a little bit about movement and yeah, and well, my mom when I was little put me in dancing less.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

First, she put me in in the ice skating and I screamed on the ice because it was too bloody cold. See, I don't like winter. And then we're like just terrified, did not want to do it. So then she put me in dance class. So my mom, you know, my mom, you know, she was a sewing lady, like, you know, she did everything she possibly could to keep my dream alive of being a dancer and training. So music has always been such a a thing in our house. And even, you know, before TikTok, you know, we would we would put on the records downstairs and everybody would get up and you'd have to like, you know, either sing or lip sync it or whatever. So, you know, my my dad was the biggest ham too. Like he was so my mom would take me to ballet, so music was always in our house, right? My mom learned how to play guitar later in life, she learned like she has a keyboard. Um, so music is just always been, and my mom and dad used to go dancing every Saturday night. She'd get dressed up to the nines with her high heels, and they would ballroom dance on ice skates um and be like the best dancers at the dance. So when I've you know, and obviously, so as a dancer, so music is so amazing for people with dementia and for everybody, right? And so like when in doubt, dance it out, get out of your head and into your heart, you know, put on some music, man. Right. So we created this online business um out of a need because of the pandemic, and to share with other caregivers because you know, if you know what your music is, like music just transcends everything, right? So um one of my friend's daughters, she because of the pandemic, couldn't go to class, so you know, she was heartbroken. So I said, I can teach her dance. I was a dance teacher, I'd like to teach her dance, we can do this. So, you know, I set up this class for it, it was a bit challenging for, you know, she was four, you know, three to five year olds online for 20 minutes. Um, but you know, we we what's your name, what you're grateful for. We do a little dance, we do follow the leader, we end in meditation, you know, and the adult class is like, you know, you come on. I want people to come on and just it, I don't say it's jazz class or it's it's a movement class. So people can come, we can be, you know, like during the pandemic, this was amazing because we couldn't go anywhere, but now it's a little bit different. So I'm zigzagging with that, you know, with that structure of the business. But people come on and just just have fun, right? Like you don't have to be a dancer, you can just come on and just express yourself. We don't there's not a lot of places where you can go, you know, unless you go get drunk and go to a dance club, right? How do you dance without being drunk? Like, I know there's so many people it's like, oh, I I'm not, I can't do that. I need to have like a shot, I need to have a couple of drinks before I can dance. Really? You know, but just really give give people a space to, and then I would always end in meditation, right? And uh yeah, so that's how that got created. And you know, the with dementia is called sundowners. Um, I'm really trying to not even give it attention, but it is a thing. Um, you know, it's usually around four o'clock or you know, four to six. My mom gets a little crazy, and so I've created a set list, and it's got Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and Elvis. And so I cook dinner, we make dinner, and we dance in the kitchen, like every night. That's what we do, and we sing and we sing the song that she knows, right? And I love all that stuff too, like you know, and uh yeah, so I created that out of a because that's what I did with my mom all the time. And then I'm thinking, you know, what other caregivers, you know, uh have them come on, they get a break in their day because that music's gonna change their state, and then hopefully their loved one will like that music. And you know, as I get people on online with me, I usually say, okay, what is your you know, what is some of their favorite songs? So I customize the set list to the people that are on the call, right? So so yeah, so that's and then now I've learned Reiki, Reiki energy healing, and I've been doing distance Reiki sessions for um people and has made a profound difference. And I'm like, what what am I doing? Yeah, I'm doing that, believe it or not, it does exist. And I've been doing it on my mom too, and it's been really helping her. So I love it.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

I um, you know, I can't imagine what it's like to kind of lose your conscious memories of your past, but we know from from the world of you know neuroscience and and studying the brain that the subconscious remembers everything, right? So by by playing music that she played over and over again, you know, when you were growing up and you know, went to dances with your dad and probably danced to those songs, like you know, she whips me around.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Yeah, she doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Yeah, it's like it's it's in there, right? She remembers those things. And so I'm sure that brings her such comfort, Jackie. Um yeah, just uh uh I'm just so grateful. And I I don't know what the next thing, you know, you've been really gracious with me over the summer as I'm, you know, because I'm really trying to put some thought to still really landed on anything about like what the next part of the journey looks like uh after the move to Bali. But uh, you know, um I know that whatever it is, it it's gonna can involve our continued partnership in some capacity. And uh I just um thank you for who you've been for me, you know. As I'm learning to partner more, you were one of the very early people in this journey, and I was like, Yeah, yeah, you can come work with me. I have no idea what to do. And uh Lenja and Jack and Amber, can I have some work to do? I don't know what to give you, but it's nice for me. Why are you paying me then? Well, it's nice to know that there's someone there that I could give work to once I figured out what I could give you. Like I did the voiceover.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

I did the voiceover. I know.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

No, you've done you've contributed so much, Jackie. I'm so grateful for it. And uh um, but really like you just you've met me where I was at on my journey of learning how to let go of things and allow contribution in. And um, and I'm so excited for you know, um, for our time together at the party coming up and and you know, bringing people together. Tina coming in from Iowa, who's like Tina's was on the podcast, and we became friends, and then Jackie and Tina met, and Jack Tina's been at Jackie's um dance classes and movement classes. This is awesome. Yeah, so it's so great when you know, like it's just gonna be such a great um time together. So uh I just really thank you for being on the show. Thank you for who you are for me and for Joan and so many people, your your nieces, your brother, you know, your family. You're just such a your clients, you're such a contribution, and um you always bring a sense of fun and and play into everything you do, Jackie.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

So I just uh well yeah, and I I did want to mention that I am working on a book, Journey with Joan, with my tips and tricks and my magic moments of my mom. And I do have I did have the the YouTube channel too, which I put online and then I put it to private, but I'm gonna be creating stuff around that because I really want people to because what you've what you've allowed me to do, Amber, is to really create a life. Like I couldn't I could only see my mom, you could only see me as a caregiver of my mom, and and you've really helped me lift the veil of seeing a life with my mom. But what Jackie like like but what does Jackie love and just bring my mom along the journey? And you know, because I really let go that oh I can't do that because of my mom, I can't do that because of my mom. It's like, no, I'm just bringing her along for the ride. Everybody knows how she's gonna be, and they are very understanding with it. And even with you and I on our on our calls, it was like like I turned the camera, I'm like, there's my mom, like you know, and I used to get so annoyed around that, and I gave that up. It's like, yeah, like people know you're your caregiver, and you can be on this call with Amber, like you know, so but you really allowed me, um, like like I took the steps through the journey of that. So thank you. Thank you very much for that. Sorry, I didn't mean to.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Yeah, I know, I love it. I love it. For anyone who wants to get in touch with Jackie, and you know, I believe like we never know how things are gonna unfold. So I still see a future for that um Alzheimer's village that you want to create here in Canada. I, you know, so if anyone's listening to this and you want to get in touch with Jackie about any of the things that we've talked about, her movement classes or her journey with Joan, or you know, the possibility of partnering around creating a really beautiful environment and space for people living with dementia in Canada, uh, you'll be able to find out all of that information in the show notes. Jackie, I just love you so much. Thank you for being on the show and sharing yourself so authentically with us about your journey of you know, all of it, the beautiful moments and and the the tough spots. And just uh just thank you for always being you.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

I gotta sing to you. Oh, yes. I'm so glad we have this time together. Just to have love and sing a song. This is Carol Burnett. Anyway, so I love it.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Yeah, I'm so glad too. Everyone, thank you for joining Jackie and I on the show this week. I look forward to being with you next week, and I love you all. Have a great week.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out what would Amber Do dot com.