SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard. Each week, Amber dances in conversation with inspirational leaders, how to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly created life of service to others. And now, here is your host.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Joe was a successful business and resilience coach before a personal decision to quit drinking alcohol in 2020 led her on a journey to co-found Smug AF Cocktail Company. I hope I said that right, and you'll correct me if I didn't, Joe, which is out to transform the drinking culture globally. Joe's personal commitment is that people realize their potential in life and flourish. Jo's also a mom. She's from Australia. We met in a personal development course, and I just fell in love with her. And uh, we very recently had the opportunity to meet in person in Bali, which was just so joyful. Joe, I'm just so grateful to have this conversation with you today.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Oh, thank you for having me. It's a total delight to be with you as always.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

So talk to me. How does that, you know, how do you what what brought you to the decision to give up drinking and how what what's your journey been like to get to today with the business and with your friend Lauren? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Uh look, it seemed maybe to an outsider like it was an overnight decision. I think it's like any, you know, suddenly a singer will land on on the world stage and you're like, wow, this guy's amazing. And you realize they've been at it for 10 years. You know, it was a bit like that for me uh when I stopped drinking. So I was always talking to people about their potential. I was always committed that people perform at a at a very high level, but at a sustainable level as well. And so over the years, when I was coaching people, I would read up a lot about performance. And I was always looking for what's the edge? What's the edge? What's the next edge that I can practice myself that I can give to my clients? Um, and one of the things that cropped up was obviously things like diet and the impact that that has on our energy levels and our capacity. You know, if you're if you're going to do something big in life, you need a ton of energy for that. You can't just be business as usual if you're doing something new or something big. And so I'd often talk to my clients, especially if we had, you know, they were they were trying to implement something new. I'd talk to them about, you know, they're looking after themselves, their self-care routine. And I'd often suggest that they took a break from alcohol because one of the key things I had learned was that alcohol had such an enormous impact on our brain, on our hormones, um, on our immune system, our central nervous system. It pretty much affects every aspect of our bodies, um, and not in a good way, really. So I myself had never met anybody who had not been a drinker. I certainly never met anybody who had quit drinking after being a drinker. So for me, this concept was really foreign and I found it very difficult not to drink. So I would do things like go paleo and change in, in fact, my whole family's diet. We we changed all kinds of things about our diet, but I could just never fathom the idea of not having my wine at the end of a day to wind down, or at the end of a week, or to be in a social situation and not be able to drink. And so it actually took me a good five years. It was seven years from the time I recognized that alcohol was probably having a detrimental impact on my capacity to truly flourish and to um live my best life, I suppose. Uh, but it was then only five years ago that I met someone who said, Well, I've quit drinking for a year to see how it affects my performance. And so far, I've done this to my business, that's happening in my life. You know, they had all of these examples of these amazing results in their life, and the only thing they changed was they stopped drinking. So that took me five years. I thought, I'll try and cut back. I tried to take breaks from alcohol. I'd say to myself, I'm gonna have 30 days off and I'd get three days in, and I'd find myself just pouring a bottle of wine. It's just so habitual, it was such a difficult thing to do. And I watched people all the time working on giving up alcohol, even people who wouldn't really consider themselves to have a real problem. I mean, I wasn't often people say to me, What were you like drinking vodka at 10 a.m.? Like, could you could you not get out of bed without having a drink? Well, how bad did it get? Yeah, surely only alcoholics quit drinking. Um, and and this is when I recognize that the world is not, it's really pulling for more alcohol. The world's not, you know, doesn't have any sort of recognition for you're either a normal drinker or you are an absolute alcoholic, you've probably lost your job, you're in a gutter somewhere, and you're drinking out of a brown paper bag. And people pretty much even knowing me said that, no. So I didn't even really have a a big, well, I would call a big drinking problem, but it was certainly becoming a problem for me, I guess. So I find eventually gave up on December 30, 2020. And a lot of people are like, why didn't you just get through New Year's?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

I was gonna say that's like right before New Year's.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

Yeah. But I think, you know, after a five-year journey, it didn't matter what day it was, it didn't matter what day was coming next, it didn't matter what event was in front of me, I was done with alcohol. Uh, and it's and and I think until you can remove the desire to drink, it's a really hard thing. I I did five months, and I promise you I was white knuckling the whole time. Like it took all my willpower and energy to not drink because I still wanted to drink. And maybe that's enough of an intro for how I got here, but but certainly I suppose what was driving me was the fact that I recognized how difficult it was and how much stigma was still attached to not drinking. It's almost like it seems to be the only drug that you have to justify not taking.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

That's interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way, but I, you know, I think you're absolutely right. I think there is uh because there's like there's so much stigma around smoking and like it's gross, and there's all you know, so like no one no one questions if you quit smoking, right? No one's like, oh, you should keep doing that, or you know, like what are you like whatever? It's just like, oh, okay, great. Like um, it's almost a little bit of the opposite, like the the the shame that comes from people if you if you're still smoking, right? Like it's like right. Yes. Um, yeah. I when you were sharing, Joe, it really had me thinking, like, I get it, like it, you know, I mean, we both live in the world of performance. We coach, we've coached people. We are, you know, I still coach people in that space. Um, it doesn't matter what the energy leak is, right? Like, you know, there's lots of ways in which we leak energy as human beings, right? Toxic, like relationships that don't work, daily habits, you know, um, whether it's drinking or, you know, anywhere where we feel that there's an impact to our ability to create, and that's the lens I look through, right? Like my commitment is that people live a created life. You know, I I drink, I'm drinking more probably now that I'm in Bali than I have in a long time. But as far as I it got to a point in my life where there was nothing in life that was worth a hangover. Like I would rather not drink than be like to me, it's like I'm gonna spend a half a day, an hour, a half a day, a full day feeling like crap because of something I did the lot the night before. So I I typically don't drink to excess, um, you know, maybe have a beer here and there or whatever, but whatever it is for you, right? Like that inability to say no to anything. Yeah. You know, whether it's romantic relationships, working too much, like whatever it is. I think I I'm a fan of people having living a completely created life and having the freedom to be able to choose what it is that they want. And I know that that's a big message between behind, you know, this non-alcoholic brand that you and Lauren have created, smug AF. It's like that people have choice, that people drink mindfully, that people are that we we, you know, like we talk about and confront this stigma that you have to drink in order to have a good time or to be social. Um, and that if you're not drinking, that there must be, oh, are you pregnant, or you know, like you're on a detox, or you're like, you know, like you're an alcoholic, right? Like that there has to be some drastic reason in which someone would choose, other than it just doesn't support the the quality of life and well-being that I want, period.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah. Yeah, you have to have a socially acceptable reason for not drinking. And I know a lot of people who stop drinking who will make up reasons to satisfy their social circle when they go out with them.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Wow. Imagine that. I've got a crazy socially acceptable reason not to do something.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Isn't that crazy? And and you're right, there are so many things in our life that can cause a similar sort of detrimental effect, I suppose. You know, and for us, I think we just like you said, we, my business partner Lauren and I, we value our goals over hangovers. So it's why we don't say we're not anti-alcohol, actually. I mean, even though alcohol has a very negative impact on many things, um, we are not saying to people it's bad and you shouldn't do it, and we're being all, you know, creating shame for people about alcohol. What we want to do is educate people about alcohol because it's a bit like the sugar industry did and the tobacco industry did. They create a lot of confusion about what's really so about that substance and what it really does to the body, and they definitely don't want people knowing the truth that it's a class A carcinogen. They don't want people to know that. So that's not widely known by people about alcohol. So we we're open, we you know we're committed to educating people, but we want to do it in a fun way. We want to inspire people, and ultimately, if you can have two drinks instead of six in a sitting, um, then we think that's a win and you're still gonna wake up pretty fresh tomorrow, right? So we're all about having fun tonight, still being fresh tomorrow, and however that looks for you.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, that's like I hear freedom in that, right? Like I hear the freedom to choose. Because I think another thing that I'm really getting from what you're saying is that for a lot of people, it that pressure to drink, right? Especially in social situations, um is is a really big deal, you know, and and and so if people feel like, oh, in order, you know, this is where we bring it back to one of my favorite conversations around connection and belonging. It's like in order to belong in this environment or with this group of people. And like if I look back at my life, I I pretty much always drink with my social network, like my social group. So if my social group were heavy drinkers, then I I would be a heavy drinker. If they were light drinkers, I like, you know, I could go weeks or months without having a drink, you know. And if I got together some people and they had a glass of wine, I'd have a glass of wine. Um now I'm saying I I don't ever want to hang over again. So that's like kind of like, you know, I'm happy to to to drink, but but without without having that, because it's just not worth it. Like there's so many things I want to accomplish in life, it's just not worth it to feel crappy because I, you know, did that. But like wouldn't it be great if we could socialize with one another and be together and not feel like we had to put that pressure on other people to participate in any activity? Right. Like, I mean, not to be crass about it, but if the if we like if you put some other analog in there, right? Like and said, you know, the same conversations about sex, like, or about cocaine, right? Or about harming other people or harming animals, and the same arguments were used socially to try and convince people to participate in those activities when they really didn't want to, there'd be outrage, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Yeah, it really doesn't happen with anything else. And there's a Jerry Seinfeld um funny meme that's going around. It's like, you know, nobody ever tries to convince you to drink or do anything about anything else. It's like, oh, you don't want mayonnaise? Why are you addicted to mayonnaise?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So great. So I guess we've talked about it a little bit, but you know, in your experience, what was it about drinking that, you know, because one of your big commitments is that people flourish in their life. What was it for you about your habits around drinking or you know, that got in the way of your your ability to fully flourish?

SPEAKER_03 13:49

There was a few things. Um, I'm 47 now, and I I probably started to notice it in my early 40s that I could have one glass of wine and feel crap the next day, honestly. And as as I became more present about things and I my kids were getting older. I mean, I would maybe have a glass of wine at the end of the day making dinner or whatever, and that might be two by the time you have dinner, and I'll be putting my kids to bed at night, and I would fall asleep putting them to bed. Right? So then my kid is there, I'm meant to be having quality time with my kid. For me, alcohol was just making me very tired. Uh, I was tired at the time, and also the following day, very tired. Grumpy, it was affecting my moods, absolutely affecting my moods. And so then mostly the people dealing with that was my kids. So, you know, they're just being normal everyday kids, but I was my mood was escalating into grumpiness. I was not to 75, I was not to 75 in no time. Um, and when I stopped drinking, they were some of the impetus for starting smug AF cocktails because they were like, Mom, you really should do something to help other people stop drinking. We love that you stop drinking. They were so proud. So I think I think the fundamental thing for me was the kids, and also I kept feeling like I was gonna die with my potential intact. Like, I was like, on paper, I should have done, surely I should could have achieved more than what I have right now. I have all these commitments, it's not really coming together. Maybe there's a block there, and I decided that alcohol was probably in the way.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

And what's your experience been? So, inside of that, like what's your experience been like? So, you know, what you shared out with your children is is beautiful, but for yourself, you know, it's now kind of coming up on the end of 2022, so almost two years since you had your last drink. Like, what's what has been your experience since giving that up?

SPEAKER_03 16:01

Well, I'm not tired anymore. I'm not craving a nap in the middle of the day. I'm getting up at five easily, bounding out of bed at 5 a.m. And I do things for myself. So in that time, that's my I read books and I do a bit of exercise and my meditation. And so I get a lot of my self-care and doing the things I want just for me before the house wakes up, basically. So, and I'm doing that with totally fresh, like every day fresh. Waking up, there's no price I can put on waking up fresh every day of my life, it's the best. Um, and I think my relationships generally are stronger. You know, I was finding if I'd have a drink and I was switching off from everybody, you know, if the kids wanted something from me, I'd be like, No, no, I'm just having a drink, you feel that, you know. I have less guilt in my life, and that that's empowering, you know. If I if there's not things to feel guilty about, then that's also that's an energy leak, all right? Right there, isn't it? Just that I feeling guilty because you have a commitment to be here, and there's a huge gap between how I'm showing up and what I'm committed to. So those kinds of things um matter deeply to me is who am I being and how am I showing up? And I just wasn't able to fulfill on that for myself while I was drinking.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

That's beautiful. You know, I um I was having a conversation today in the car with one of my coworkers, uh, and he was saying he was having some hard time sleeping right now with because of some stuff that's going on in his life. And and I shared with him, like I was probably an insomniac from the time I was 12 until I was 38. Um and like when you start your day for whatever reason, whether it's like not sleeping well or you know, like not feeling good, or you you had too much to eat or drink or ate too late, for me, it's you know, for me, the thing that there really is to give up is gluten, and you know, I just seem to refuse to do that and suffer as a result of it. Um, but whatever that thing is, like when you start your day, you know, if you look at your energy levels as like a fuel tank and you start every day and your your tank isn't just empty, it's under empty, right? Like it just unpacks every aspect, like you know, your relationships, your ability to be able to focus to your creativity, what you can how you can think. Uh, so I I really get that. And um, you know, I know part of the the the reason for creating the brand was around educating people about the the effects of alcohol and all of that. But I you know, I I also know that part of the reason you you created these mocktails that I haven't yet had a chance to try myself, but you know, I've read the reviews and uh I see the look on your face right now as you're drinking one of your bellinis. Um taste like you have the experience of uh of a real cocktail is you know, so that people can go into social settings and feel like they can have you know a familiar experience with other people and not kind of feel like they're going without or that they don't get to fully participate. Yeah, is there anything you want to say about about that and about the the the drinks themselves?

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Yeah. So firstly, it's really hard to make cocktails that replicate the real thing. Just want to get that out there. Really hard. Um but the reason Lauren and I, it was actually Lauren's idea to come up with the range. Um I was still it's I suppose in a coaching mindset when I was thinking there must be a business I can do that would support people to stop drinking. And when Lauren came on board with like the second day of the business idea being formulated, it's like we need a range. And there's a huge gap in the market for for cocktails, mocktails that taste truly like a cocktail and are low in sugar, you know, and um low in calories and still deliver uh uh the theater that comes when you get a cocktail. When you get a really good cocktail, there's a lot of theater involved. It's it feels special, it feels fancy. You definitely feel like an adult when you drink them. There's a level of sophistication that comes through the cocktail, right? There's fancy glasses and all the hubbub, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

I had one the other day in Bali, and then the glass there was like dry ice and it the it was smoking and yes.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

That thing was steaming, right? I saw it, I was like, whoa, that's awesome. And as adults, we don't want to drink something that you could have had at the kitty table at a wedding when you were seven. Yeah. You want to feel as though you've you know grown up and you can have something that's special, and we wanted to deliver on that because that's what we we wanted. And I suppose we were really targeting ourselves, people who drank before, or maybe are still drinking. And as I said, we're not just trying to serve people who've already become sober, you know, and in some ways for anyone who really did have a major problem with alcohol, we think we've got a warning on our cans that say it could be triggering for people, right? Because we that's not our market. Our market is people who are still drinking but are looking for something because maybe they're just a little bit curious about what if I could just cut back, or what if I have two drinks and then I'll switch over to something decent that's not going to kill the buzz that I'm experiencing. Because you know, we all know the first two drinks are the best. After that, it's pretty much downhill. You know, the the best, the the bulk of the dopamine comes on that first drink. The second drink, it's kind of petering out, and after that, you don't get any more dopamine. And we spend the night chasing the dopamine, which is why we keep drinking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

So it's so funny you say that because I'm like, you know, I I have this, like I said, had an experience. Experienced drinking a few months ago that did not go well. And that hasn't happened to me in a long time. And it's like drinking, it's good till it's not, right? And you know, it's typically after two drinks that it stops me, you know, like that's right. So, you know, you cut off the patio, you have some really great mocktails, you you know, your night's probably not gonna end up in you having a fight with someone or you know, crawl at home, you know, two in the morning or what have you. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Yeah, we're gonna help people stop drunk texting their ex, you know. So um yeah, so we really and Lauren had a her father had a health scare. So at the time she had also stopped drinking for five months. I think she went five or six months, and her dad cannot have another drop of alcohol, he would die, right? So that's serious, pancreatitis. Um and we were all missing the real experience of a good cocktail because you there was just nothing out there. So one, we committed to making things that were um the familiar flavors that everybody knows because there's a lot of companies doing a lot of things that are unfamiliar. So when you drink it, you're like, I like this. I don't know if I like it, I'm not sure what it is. You know, we didn't want people to have that doubt about our drinks. We wanted the mojito to taste like a mojito and the bellini to taste like a bellini. And the cosmo should taste like a cosmo, right? And so um the margarita and the cosmopolitan are actually dosed with nitrogen. So you shake them up in the can, they all come in a can, shake them up in the can, and when you pour it, it's as if a bartender made it. It's got that beautiful creamy head on the top. Um if you put it into a nice glass with a bit of a garnish, it looks like a real cocktail. So we knew that people's number one want in life is to belong. Nobody wants to miss out or stick out. And so when you can offer up a cocktail that looks and feels and smells exactly like everyone else's cocktail, then we're winning that battle where people just want to belong and and fit in and and fly under the radar. So that's why we really wanted it to be so much like the real thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

I need to, I'll pay shipping. I need to get myself some of these amazing drinks to try.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Um we'll work something out.

unknown 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

I uh in one of your posts, uh I I don't remember what platform it was on, but you know, you talked about there was this comment about holding potential hostage. And I just like really like reflect on that, like all of the ways that we do that as human beings, right? Whether, you know, and like the habits, because you're right, it's it's so much of it is habitual behavior and so much of it is patterns that we're not, you know, often the way we drink and how we drink and why we drink is stuff that's modeled for us in childhood, right? It's like our our beliefs around money or our beliefs around relationships, sex, like so much of this is part of the models that we inherit. And it's it's not even like that we created it, right? Like, you know, if you grew up in a household of social drinkers or people who had lots of parties and you saw that model, then likely your life is pretty similar. If you grew up in a household of alcoholics and you know, you're either, you know, an alcoholic yourself or like the complete opposite and and don't want anything to do with alcohol. But it to me, it's like this like it is really about how do I get to keep creating my life, not based on what was passed on to me or what was given to me by my parents or society, but based on um what I say I want and what's gonna work for me in my life. And you know, part of what I really love about what you're up to, Joe, is it's an interruption. And I think that's important because it's not necessarily about making you know alcohol manufacturers wrong or sugar manufacturers or you know, like the I I remember, so you know, I've had a lifelong relationship with nicotine. I started smoking when I was 14 years old, and some of my guests may not know this about me. Started smoking when I was 14 years old, smoked pretty consistently until probably my late my 30s, I think. And you know, I did the tried to quit a number of different times on again, off again relationship with smoking. And then I ended up quitting for five years when I worked at the airport many, many years ago. And I remember when I quit, I started researching nicotine, like I started researching smoking because, like, let's just be honest, drug addicts, and I will call myself a drug addict because nicotine is a drug, you know, aren't really particularly interested when they're using about the impact of their behavior, right? It's like, you know, someone who's snorting cocaine is not like, let me go Wikipedia cocaine to understand what this thing's doing to my body, right? Like, and when I quit smoking and I started researching, I, you know, and this may make me sound naive, but I didn't know that nicotine was added to tobacco. I had thought that nicotine was just a byproduct, and I don't know that anyone ever told me that. Like, I'm not saying that someone like I saw that somewhere, but I I never questioned it, I never looked into it, I never thought about it. And so when I I had this period of like time where I had to work through my anger and almost rage that someone would add the most, like nicotine is the most addictive substance on the planet, without a doubt. And someone thought it was a good idea to add that thing to tobacco to make people want to smoke more. And I was angry about it at the time, right? And, you know, I still am ongoingly um, you know, my relationship with smoking and nicotine and and how I relate that to having a break. I think I probably have the most freedom around it right now in my life because I stopped resisting. Um, and and like I just gave myself the freedom to to be in the discovery of like, what do I want my relationship with nicotine to be and and not coming from shame and guilt, because I think for most of my life I did. And and that's like that energy leak you were talking about around, you know, your moods with your kids, right? It's like how much not only the physical health impacts, which we know are significant, but I think we know from the work that we've done in in mindset and and you know, the brain, and how in neuroscience that that all of those conversations people have with themselves, the guilt and shame that they carry around regarding habits, whether it's habits around food or or anything in life, you know, um, like they have as much, if not more, of an impact on our physical well-being as well, because there's such an impactful and meaningful relationship between our brains function and our minds and our bodies. So um I think it's important that there be people out there in the world, like yourself and your co-founder, interrupting this conversation and giving people a you know, creating a safe space where people can just think. And and as you call it, mindful drinking, right? It's like, no, we're not saying don't ever drink, but like most of what you're doing is not mindful. It's it's patterns of behavior that have been passed down, and and you're not even present to it. It's not at the level of your consciousness. So, you know, really kudos to the both of you and and thank you for what it is that you're committed to and what you're out to, and because I think it is it it's unnecessary.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Yeah, I think I was just thinking when you were talking, then one of the big connections that I think a lot of people have, and I certainly had this, was find an alcohol. And because when we're going to create a fun event, often we serve alcohol at those events, right? And it's super easy to wrap them together and think that somehow the alcohol's doing something to make an event fun. But if the truth be told, you know, if you're out with your besties, you were probably gonna have fun whether the alcohol was there or not, yeah. Um or if you're doing something super exciting, whether there's alcohol or not, you're probably gonna have a good time. And until you can unravel the connection between fun and alcohol, which is something I had to do, you know, I had a lot of concerns about will people find me boring? Um, how will I connect with my husband? If he's having a drink at night and I don't have one, how are we gonna sit and connect? We should just have a wine or we cook dinner together and have a wine each. And you know, it always loosens you up, right? Loosens you up, you have a good chat. How will I do that? And it's it's part of the reason I didn't quit because these some of these major concerns were actually the reason I stopped, you know, in my efforts to quit. And um, I even did things like just as some tips, I I did some things like paying attention to how does this drink make me feel? And do I even like the taste? You know, so much of the stuff is so habitual. We're not even paying attention to do I feel better when I have it? Is it making me feel good right now? Is it tasty?

SPEAKER_01 31:06

You know, these people who say I drink for the taste, like really yeah, I've I've I've consumed some very un well, I got that way around food sometimes too. Like it's like, you know, I used to feel like you, you know, you grow up like you have to eat everything on your plate, you can't like food, and and it's like, you know, I used to be you used to used used to eat things, and even if I didn't enjoy them, it's like, why am I putting these calories in my body if I'm not enjoying it? Like if it's not tasty to me, like why am I consuming this? Right. So we um there it's so interesting, right? As we get further and further into this work with the work, the kind of work that we do with people just like the like almost insanity, right? When you think about the beliefs that we've inherited. And look, they may have served at a point in time or whatever they were great, created for a world that we don't live in anymore. And that's the message, right? You don't have to just do things the way that they've always been done. You get to look for yourself about what works for you and and how you conduct your life and and how you, you know, you how you have fun, how you and and let's be honest, like alcohol has probably caused way more heartaches and and pain, right? Like then it, you know, then it has fun, because there's a really like we're you know, not talking about it so much here, but there is a really ugly, nasty side to our behavior when we become too intoxicated as human beings. And it's not okay and it doesn't work, and it contributes to a lot of people's like not just their suffering in the moment or their lack of good decision making in the moment and the impact that that decision making has on other people, you know, especially because we typically do this stuff in crowds, and you know, human beings don't make the best decisions in crowds and intoxicated, right? You know, um, but then all of the guilt and shame that follows, right? And all of the waste that that creates in terms of the energy and the, you know, our own personal resources that go into just making ourselves wrong and those patterns of behavior.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah, it can be a lot of time taken up with what did I do yesterday, and trying to piece together what happened last night, and going back through your phone and checking the evidence or what who did I message and why is my best friend upset with me today. And you know, that's what a time waste, right? And you know, nobody's promoting that part of alcohol consumption ever. If we could do before and afters with advertising for alcohol, you know, really the the lie we get sold is that you'll be more fun, you'll be way more sexy. If you look at any of the advertising, it's it's funny. I look through um, I look at ads totally differently these days than I used to. And the promise is massive of you know, you'll be hotter and more attractive to the other sex if you drink our brand versus that brand, you know, it's hilarious, really, when you think about it. And we we all fall for the lie.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Well, what's interesting is those are the same lies that were told about smoking, right? Those are the the and and and and the same lies that are told, like, you know, if you really confront, there's a great book called Doublespeak, and it talks about the you know, doublespeak and and how language is used to manipulate and obfuscate in in governments and in um you know, and and marketing and advertising. One of my favorite things, I read that book years ago, and then I rebought a copy of a book recently, and I want to reread it, but like talking about parity products in marketing. So, like when it comes to certain things like batteries and toothpaste and you know things like that, they can't actually say that their toothpaste is better than another toothpaste because they're a parody product. There's really no marked difference in terms of what the product's gonna do, but they can say that theirs is the best toothpaste. Right. So they can claim I have the best toothpaste in the market, but they can't claim it's better, right? So all of this, like, you know, and and and it gets used on both sides, right? To shame people around being overweight or to shame people around this diet, you know, that our diet is better than that diet, right? So there's so much, so many ways in which language is used to manipulate people to and praise on, I'm gonna use the word praise, praise on that inherent need that we have as human beings to connect and to belong and to feel like we're included and that, you know, um, and to be a part of something. And so I I think it's important to have as many people out there as possible just saying, well, hold on a second here. You know, here's another frame, here's another way to look at it. And yeah, you know, that may be the way everyone else is doing things, but you get to have a choice.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

Yeah, and we we recently that just on the name, I don't know if you wondered about our name, smug AF.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Um, I think everyone on the show knows what the AF stands for, but you know, if you don't, you can Google, you can Google with that acronym. Well, I'm assuming actually, maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Right. So so so people would write to me and say, Does it mean smug alcohol free or smug as a good word? And I would just I would just respond, yes. And they'd say, You didn't answer my question. I go, Yes, I did. But I recently did a um a promotion with uh Victoria Manstone runs a community called Kappa, and it's all it's available all around the world. You can you can join the Kappa community, and even if you're sober curious or you're just interested to find out what's going on, or you you're on the journey of trying to stop drinking, whatever it happens to be. A very um it's a lovely community. Everyone's really supportive of one another. There's a lot of resources there, and we we did a little promotion and we gave away some product, and it was tell us um a time you felt just a little bit smug because you weren't drinking, you know, some of whether it was an occasion or or over a period of time, and some of the stories were fantastic. There was one woman who was dancing out of the nightclub on her way home, looking at the taxi rank filled with all the people who were so drunk they couldn't drive home, and she was just getting to her car and she drove home. You know, she she actually won because I was like, What a party amount. She was still out all night, proving that you don't need to drink to stay out and party at a nightclub till two o'clock in the morning, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

So good. Yeah, it's funny, you know, like um what just as you were sharing now, I I was sharing about a story about Bob Proctor earlier with some of my coworkers inside of what we're committed to. But I was reminded I I hadn't thought about this, about what he said about alcohol, because he's he literally he shared that he walked, you know, I think it was in his 20s, he walked into a like a bar and he was sitting there and you know, up until that point in time, had just, you know, been a drinker like anyone else, probably, you know, like probably not overconsumed or anything, but just, you know, drank the way most people would drink. And he he said he had this very distinct moment where he sat in this bar and he looked around him at the people that were in the bar, and he was just like, and not like a judgment, but it was like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be like these people. And he literally walked away from the bar and never had a drink again for the rest of his life. You know, because it was just like, you know, you talked earlier about I've got I don't want to die with my, you know, with potential. And like we say the richest place in the world is the cemetery, right? Because like so many dreams and you know, creations die there. I I, you know, I find it sad to think that many people go their whole life with not knowing what it is that they were created for and not fulfilling on the things that really light up their soul and what they really want. And so um, thank you so much, Joe, for just your commitment and your stand for people. Thank you for for bringing fun and play to it, because I think it can be a topic of conversation that could be very triggering for people or very, you know, there's like so much condemnation or judgment or shame, but around the topic of conversation on both sides, right? People who drink or people who don't, or whether people should drink or not. Uh, and so I just, you know, I'm really grateful that there are entrepreneurs out there like yourselves looking at, you know, how and that and it's so great. The other thing I want to say about it is there are so many different ways to fulfill on your purpose, right? So if you wake up one day and you're like, wow, like I really have a commitment to X, Y, or Z, you know, yeah, you could have created a coaching business around it. That's what many people would have done. But there you could also go create a cocktail, a mocktail brand, right? Like, yeah, so there's no limit. Okay, and what I'm really inspired about in this conversation is there's no limit to the pathways to fulfill on what it is that you want to create in the world, other than the ones that we create ourselves. And um like I think it's just so great that you're out there with this fun brand that's out to be an interruption and it's standing inside a real commitment that people drink mindfully and that people have choice about how they participate and create their lives. So thank you for your partnership and for being that.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Aw, thank you. Thanks for recognizing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

For anyone listening to the show, so right now, smug AF cocktails are only available in Australia, which is really sad for the rest of the world. And I'm standing that, you know, um, that not be the case forever. And and I know that that's part of the plan to be able to move the brand beyond Australia. But for any of the people listening to the show, you know, you'll you can find out how to purchase any of their products. And they also have some really cool merchandise if you're interested in that on their website, which all of that information will be available in the show notes. Joe, just I love you. Thank you so much. I had so much fun having this conversation with you, and and just thank you for your leadership and for who you are for people.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Thank you. I could say the same back at you, Amber.

unknown 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

For those listening to the show, thank you for being with us in this conversation. I love you, and I will talk to you next week.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out what would Amber Do.com.