SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard. Each week, Amber dances in conversation with inspirational leaders out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly creative life of service to others. And now, here is your host.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Welcome back, everyone. Welcome back to What Would Amber Do? It is really an honor and a privilege this morning to be speaking with another one of my co-authors from the She's the Boss project, Dr. Eve Marie Harmony. Eve is a licensed naturopathic doctor, craniosacral therapist, yoga teacher, and a shamanic ceremonialist. And I don't know if I said all of those words right, but you'll correct me if I didn't, Eve. And an international bestselling author. Eve left a successful 30-year career as a medical professional to launch her shamanic awakening method and launch a program to really teach spiritual healing to anyone, I think. But you'll tell us more about that. Eve's commitment is to teach people that spiritual health is the key to overall health. Eve, thank you so much for being here this morning or evening, wherever you are in the world and sharing yourself with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Thank you so much for having me, Amber. It's wonderful to be here in your calm and collected presence.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Thank you. So talk to me. I mean, I know I, you know, I've done a little bit of work in the medical health sector back in Canada. I know that even like the conversation for naturopathic medicine, when you talk to you know, really traditional, traditional medical health professionals, like that can be a big leap. But I'm pretty sure for many medical health professionals, the, you know, going from traditional medicine to shamanism is is probably quite a big departure. So for you in your own journey, where did how did that happen? How did you go from saying, okay, I've done this for 30 years and now I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna shift my my focus to spiritual healing in the way that you have.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Really good question. And what's bubbling up in my mind is truly, I got bored.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

I've been bored. Yeah, I got that.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

After focusing on physical health for so long, yet always having that spiritual health side of me. Um, I had so many conversations where I sat with people thinking, wow, this person just isn't getting the physical side of health because they're not getting it on a spiritual level. And so I would often ask people who were having a difficult time making the changes they needed to make, such as, let's cut back the sugar, let's increase the movement, you know, the physical changes, and they just weren't able to get there. So I would ask them something more emotional, which kind of digs down to the spiritual, like, well, what are you here for? What do you have to live for? You know, and so people would come back and they'd say, Oh, well, I have 10 grandkids, and I'd have to be really honest with them. Well, the path you're on, you're not gonna be around for maybe another couple years, but you can turn that around if you want to, and but I wasn't able to follow up with that conversation of how do you do that? Yeah, I got it. So I kind of got bored of the physical conversations.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

It's well, I I love the authenticity for one, and just being so transparent and straight about it because I think oftentimes people would find the need to like create some, you know, like some flowery story around it. But um I, you know, what I hear in that as well is it it's like when you've got a commitment, and and one of the things that I have, and I'm I'm um, I'll be moved to tears by it. One of the things that I've gotten so clear about in my work with the medical health professionals that I've been working with over the last couple of years is I I don't think I've ever met a group of people with a more profound commitment. Like just um, and and as you know, we I don't know what it's like in the United States exactly, but in Canada, you know, we keep asking more and more and more, especially over the last couple of years during COVID, and they just give and give and give. And and they're typically, I think a lot of them are really burnt out at this point in time and maybe, maybe looking at life choices. But um like I can imagine that it would be frustrating when you have such a profound commitment to people's well-being to be working just on the physical level and not being able to be effective at having people achieve the results that they want or achieve the level of health that you think they need to as their doctor, and then knowing from your own, and I am I'm interested to hear some uh a little bit more about your own spiritual journey, Eve, that awakened that for you. But knowing that there's this other deeper level that could be making a difference, and and there's tools and awareness and and things there that you're not really able to fully give to your to your patients or your clients. So um I I I hear the boredom, but I can also imagine that that experience would have been incredibly frustrating as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yes, definitely. And you're right, um, as a medical professional, I was very committed to people's well-being. And in naturopathic school, they teach us look at the whole person. You know, we're not just physical bodies. We we do have mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of ourselves. And in the aspect of physical, it's not just what drug is missing, you know, it's not just what surgery needs to happen, it's what changes need to be made to remove the obstacles to healing. And so what I found in my experience and my commitment to healthcare was that um I found most of the obstacles were not so much in the physical realm. There were changes that could be made there, but as I said before, we really have to dig down to the other pieces to you know really get to the root. And so many doctors don't have the time for that or don't take the time for that. And I think patients can feel it when a doctor is sitting with them too, that feel that like really cares on that level. And that was something that I just longed to express more of. So I think I went off on a tangent, but no, no, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

I love it. I am yeah, that conversation about time is an interesting one. I and when you said we take the time for what is in, you know, I and I'm I'd love to hear about the focus of your your your upcoming program. Um, because I think that you know the key to it might be there, but um probably a lot of medical professionals don't even have the awareness, you know. I I um I'll never forget the first time I read Louise Hayes You Can Heal Your Life. And um and like this, and I and I'd been studying mindset for a while when I before I read that book, a friend of me a friend of mine shared it with me. But this whole idea that um to what you were saying a minute ago about it all being connected, you know, that disease is actually like you could say the root of disease is a lack of ease in the mind, and that all of the, you know, and then well, where is that lack of ease in the mind come from? Well, like spiritual, emotional, trauma, right? Like all of those pieces, um our subconscious patterning comes from, and that's the thoughts that we keep thinking over our mind that cause the you know, stress responses in the body. Um, you know, absolutely. I I don't know how you can. And then this is kind of where I came to it from, right? Because I came to it from a different perspective. I spent most of my life working in the corporate world trying to help people improve their businesses, create solutions to bring about change, make things more effective, and learn through my own journey of personal development that I can give someone the best strategy. But if subconsciously they don't believe in themselves, then they're it they're just gonna tank it, right? So they're or they're, you know, whether they do it consciously or not, they'll create the conditions around them in which they're not able to be successful. So yeah, strategy is important, having a great plan is important, but it's equally, if not more important, that people actually believe that, believe in themselves, believe that they're worthy of success, believe that that, you know, that they can accomplish the things that they say they want to accomplish. So I think we see this conversation around, you know, the spirit and in so many different places. And I'm I'm smiling to myself right now because we've been doing some lunch and learns at work with the team here in Bali, teaching our development team, many of whom have never heard of any of these concepts. I think I had a conversation with one of my business analysts recently, and and I asked the question, like, Do you know that you're not the only person who has a little voice in your head? And and she kind of got a little smile on her face, and she was like, No, like she thought that was just her, right? So we had, we were talking about because we're helping them create goals for 2023. So we did a well-being assessment this week, and and it opened this beautiful conversation into what is spirituality and like what well, is it religion? What is you know, and just this like this. Um, so I'm and I I get very moved by the team that we have here. Um, I love them so much. Um, but I think even that question for a lot of people, I think a lot of people don't have clarity about what it is, what spirituality is, because I think it gets very collapsed with religion, and then people have a lot of stuff going on about religion.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Yes, absolutely. And that's a question that I get a lot when I'm working with people is oh, I'm you know, Christian or I'm Mormon, uh, I have this religion, and it says that shamanism is wrong or bad. And so then I have to re-educate and say, well, actually, shamanism is a form of spirituality. So if you think of it, spirit is individual to each person, but it also permeates all of us, so everything is energy. We're all connected through the quantum field of um, you know, swimming in the energy, and our spirits are a part of that. So I believe that spirituality is more an individual practice, whereas religion is a set of group beliefs and practices, and that's very important to people to feel that they belong to a group, but it's also important that they have their own individual things that make their spirits feel amazing. So, like myself, for example, I just shared an email with my um with my list today, where I had an experience with a raven just the other morning where it was down rooting around in some garbage, and my dog noticed it, and it flew up to the wire. And I I pride myself on speaking ravens. So I made some clicking sounds and some calling sounds, and it looked right at me and it sang this little sing-song-y raven song. And I love that sound so much, it just made my heart swell in my chest. And those are the little things that to me, it's like that made my spirit feel good, and that might not make someone else's spirit feel good, you know. To me, it's like talking to the animals, talking to the trees, to someone else, it might be lighting a candle, drinking a cup of tea, taking a bath. It might be, you know, chanting, it might be um, there are so many different practices, burning incense, um, doing yoga. So there's many different ways to honor the spirit and to each person that's individual. And shamanism, you asked earlier, kind of what is shamanism? And I wouldn't say that there's any one definition. I will say that it used to be so pervasive that pretty much all of our ancestors practiced it. So it's in our DNA. And there's some and there's so many shamanic practices that it gets confusing. It's like, well, is it ayahuasca, or is it, you know, um, getting bitten by snakes and overcoming that, or is it, you know, ritual starvation? What is it? You know? And to me, I think the best definition I've ever found is shamanism is one who sees through the dark, or the definition definition of a shaman is one who sees through the dark. Anybody can learn to use their higher perceptions, their ESP, their extrasensory perceptions to see through the dark, to be able to know, you know, maybe I shouldn't do business with that person, or I don't know, my intuition's telling me to do go there and not there for whatever reason. I'm feeling that sense in my body. And so we can all learn to see through the dark and heighten our intuition and connect in deeper with spirit through shamanism.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

So you make a pretty bold, you know, your your commitment is a pretty bold statement, right? Like given kind of the the pervasive attitudes and beliefs of the medical community as it exists, at least in in the Western world, right? And probably slightly different or considerably different in Eastern medicine. But you know, this idea that the key to uh overall health is actually spiritual health. What why is it that you believe that, Eve? And in and and how, you know, for for anyone who's listening to this, whether they be someone who, you know, receives medical treatment or is uh, you know, like looking for to improve their health and well-being, or is someone who's actually a medical professional themselves, like how does focusing on spiritual health in you know provide an improvement in in overall health for their for people?

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Thank you for asking that question. Uh it's it's truly, I've thought this through in depth. And the way I look at it is when we have a good connection with our spiritual selves, with our spirit, then we feel that connection, that pervasive connection with all that is that I mentioned before. We feel like everything's okay. And it's like, you know, when I talked to the Raven the other morning, and of course, that's not the only time I've done that, it makes me feel like there's another sentient being out there that gets me, that like literally acknowledged me, and it didn't have to be human. So it just gives me that feeling of wow, there everything has a spirit. And when you have that feeling of wow in your heart, that wow, I'm part of unconditional love, I'm part of universal connection, I'm part of the force, if you will. I I love the way they describe the force in Star Wars that you know it surrounds us, it moves through us, it binds the galaxy together, and you can feel through it to, you know, kind of know what's your next best action. And so um when you feel that, you feel happier. Right. So when you get a spiritual connection, you feel better emotionally. You just feel like, oh, I can take the next step. Something out there loves me, something out there knows or I know that I'm here for a reason because I feel that in the depth of my spirit, right? So you feel better emotionally. When you feel better emotionally, what happens on the mental level? Less stress, less beating yourself up, less um putting yourself last and burning yourself out, you know, more self-care, more hey, I'm okay, more self-acceptance, you know, so less depression and anxiety, right? So then what happens on the physical level is people are feeling better, they're thinking better thoughts, they go, hey, oh hey, I want to feel better physically too. I want to eat food that's you know, healthy and alive with nutrients. I want to eat food that is grown in a sustainable way because I just am having that feeling, that sense of connection to all that is. So I want to put better things in my body, I want to move my body, I want to be able to be here for the people who love me, for the people that I love. You know, so I really do again feel that the spiritual level is the foundation.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

I I really like that. It's interesting. I was like, we have I'm doing book club right now, and we're reading Thinking Grow Rich, and we were having this conversation. And I and I use the analogy of filling up your cup. And I think I don't think I'm the only one. I think a lot of people talk about this like conversation about self-care and self-love, and I'm filling your cup up. And and I and I really do believe that you know everything's created in language, and and oftentimes the tools that we create to empower us can also become the next limitation. Because I had this moment where I was like in the inside of the conversation for sourcing energy, and I'll I'll kind of bring up why I'm saying this in a minute, like this analogy of the cup is kind of limited, right? Because cups have a size and a dimension, and I've got to keep filling this thing up, right? This idea of like the cup runs out, and then I've got to put more stuff. I've got to, I've got to do something to fill my cup up so that I have the energy to then be able to go and give that energy to other people. And then it's like, I don't know, I got a little bit of a hard work thing going on in my identity, Eve. So for me, I just really got like perhaps there's another way, and and I don't have an answer to that question yet. And I'm curious to know what your thoughts are. But I thought yesterday about like the roots of a tree. And like perhaps if like the analogy I was using around sourcing energy was like tending to my roots, and and are my roots connected to other people, and like kind of I'm a bit of a geek too. So, like avatar and the idea of an avatar of the trees or the mushrooms. Like, I don't know if everyone's seen that mushroom documentary on Netflix, the idea that the mushrooms are all like literally connected across the entire world, right? This network of communication and and connection that happens. Um, but I was like, perhaps that's a more abundant and less like metaphor or analogy for understanding energy. And the reason I say it is like back to what you were saying. I know for myself when I teach people resilience, and I say, like at any given moment in time, your physical, emotional, and mental energy have have an are are limited, right? Like based on how well I ate or slept, or you know, how my mood or what I'm dealing with and my circumstances, like, but your spiritual energy is infinite. But it's also about am I tapping into that? Am I connected to that? And in those moments, like when I'm really like, oh, I'm clear that the activity that I'm doing in this moment is forwarding my purpose on this planet and it's about other people. And it's like, I like literally when we were teaching, when I was teaching the lunch and learn on Tuesday, I had this experience of like I'm funneling energy into these glorious human beings. And then when they went back to their desks after, like I pointed out to my boss Mark, I'm like, can you hear that like the energy in the office? Like they were louder, they were talking more, they were lit up, they were excited. And it's so like that feeling of, and I know from some of my friends who are Reiki practitioners, they talk about like when they heal people using energy in Reiki, they're not using their own energy, they're operating as a conduit for source energy. So I don't know how to do that at this point in time, but I think that's a really neat idea. And and I am present to their that when I am really dialed in and connected to my purpose and clear that that's what I'm doing, I do have this experience of it being effortless and I have an abundance of energy, and I can kind of, you know, accomplish anything in those moments. I think it's very powerful conversation that we're having about this.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And um, yeah, I would add to that that when people feel a sense of spiritual connection, they do tend to feel a sense of higher purpose. And that sense of higher purpose gives them that sense of flow state, if you will, if you will, where you know it's Like they get the next inspiration and they follow that, and they get the next one and they follow that, and eventually they're right doing the work that they're supposed to be doing. Um, and you seem to be a person who's lived your life that way, so I don't think you give yourself enough credit for the spiritual being that you are. Uh, but definitely, you know, to be able to get to where you've gotten and follow those little life lessons and follow those little intuitions and those little inspirations, that's really what it's all about. It's not about having all the answers all at once, you know. And and you mentioned something important too, which is that infinite well of energy, spiritual energy that's available to us. And when we get well practiced and well connected, you might not have to sit in meditation every day to get that feeling. You just might wake up and go, oh, I'm on it. I'm, you know, busy, I'm doing my thing, I'm making my purpose happen, you know, and it feels so good. And that's been kind of the experience that I've had this year with quitting my clinical job and diving into this, it's like it just flowed out of me. You know, it was it's like life has been pulling here all along. And I do feel that there's an epidemic of people working too hard in our culture and people um burning themselves out and staying in an unhappy place. And so part of my inspiration is to help people, you know, really see the beauty of who they are and that there's a reason for them to be here and to keep kind of following those inspirations until they get that juice.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

It's so interesting that you say that because you know, I I grew up in a religious home. Like I was, you know, my family was Christian and and I um I walked away from organized religion in my teen years because I had a bunch of questions that I couldn't get uh satisfactory answers to. And and so I chose to not participate anymore. But it was in I I I I got my access to spirituality back through philosophy. Because even though and and I I think if I could look, like my one of my, you know, Soren Kierkegaard says, we, you know, life can only be understood in the rearview mirror, but it has to be live moving forward, right? So if I actually looked in the rearview mirror and like focused on that question of was it intuition that moved you forward, I would probably have said it's more figuring out and having a plan, but I probably not in in reality. It was probably more um intuitive than that. And and I just didn't, I don't, I think I'm just learning. I suppressed my emotions for so long because I just didn't have I there were things to do and take care of in my life and circumstances to deal with. And and so it was like just got to keep going, keep soldiering on, you know, and you and I don't have time and also capacity, really, because it was almost like this sense of if I open that door to processing the emotional side of things, like I just will become undone. And and there's too many, you know, like I was writing an article this week and it was like I was a teenage mom, a wife of two kids, and a single mom by the time I was 20. And, you know, so like it never seemed like I had the space. And it wasn't, I think, until 2019 that I actually started to crack that door a bit and realized how much, and I probably still do, like trapped emotional energy I had just from, you know, years and years of dealing with things in my life that I had to that I had to deal with based on circumstances. But um I think when I look back at at the journey to get to today, like a pivotal moment in that was discovering philosophy. And it was in university and and I had walked away from faith, but there was always this part of me like I love worship music, I love Christian worship music. There's just something so life-giving about it and and like soothes my soul. But I felt like a real hypocrite for a long time. And I think this is part of what people deal with in this conversation about spirituality and religion. Because, you know, God bless my mom. I I love her and I get it, and I'm a parent myself, and I know how it goes. Like you think you're doing what's best for kids and giving them tools and teaching them your values, but I was taught that the way to have a relationship with God was through Christianity and through believing in the Christian doctrines that I was taught. And so when I chose that because of views about women and certain things in those conversations that I weren't was no longer aligned with, that I didn't want to participate anymore, I felt like I was cut off from having a relationship with God or anything spiritual because I was being a hypocrite. It's like, oh, you don't want to believe the way that the truth, because it was created for me like it's the truth. And so there are many years where I felt cut off from being able to have any kind of relationship with a spiritual entity or being or God directly, because I've been taught that the way to access God was through Jesus and the beliefs in the Christian religion. And then in my 20s, I put myself through school and I studied philosophy and I discovered natural religion. So, like during the time of the Enlightenment, when there was this massive backlash against organized structures of education and governance and religion, this idea that you can look out into nature and see a hand at work and in the and the cycles of nature and the seasons and you all of that, you can see something beyond our our you know, our physical or daily or our experiences of life. And I remember that was probably the first time in my life where I actually had the experience that I could have a direct and personal relationship with whatever God was, right? Like I still don't necessarily I love Aristotle's definition of God, which is thought thinking, thought, to just think is so beautiful and expansive. Um but for me, that was the start of a journey to be able to, and I do consider myself now a very spiritual being. And and there's still so much about this that I'm discovering, and and you know, but I've had enough experiences to to have a very deep sense of knowing and confidence that you know, that we are made of energy and that things are working out and that thoughts do become things, and that I am the creator of my life and my experiences of my life. And I'm really committed, like that's my big commitment is that everyone gets access to that. So, like having people like you, you know, you are someone who is living a created life, Eve. You've like, you know, you you you were on a path and you discovered new things and and other ways of being able to express your commitments and and you that takes a lot of courage to walk away from a 30-year clinical practice. Like I, you know, like I just really want to acknowledge you for the courage and the bravery it takes to walk away from that and say, I'm just not willing or I'm not going to anymore, keep doing something that that, you know, when I when I believe and I know that there's a different way that I could be fulfilling on what it is that I'm here for and my purpose and what I'm committed, committed to.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Yeah, absolutely. You touched on so many important points. Um, but as far as walking away from the clinical practice, I will say it felt riskier to stay there than it did to take this step. And um, one of the things you spoke to was having like having goals, you know, pushing forward, having that like vision in front of you, and just keep going for it. And and you also spoke about um think and grow rich. And uh one of the premises of that book is you have to know what you want.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

And if you don't know what you want, even to some little inkling, your life can't get you there. But once you, I like the analogy that once you set a and I like the word intention for like life, goals are kind of like daily. I'm gonna go to the grocery store, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna pay my taxes, I'm gonna, you know, get this thing done this year, buy a house, lose some weight. Intentions are who you who you want to be when you grow up, right? So knowing your intention of I want to be someone who gives back, I want to be someone who um inspires people through whatever means that is, and it's gonna be different to each individual. But once you have that intention, your life can line up like um like a plane with a destination. Right? That intention becomes a destination, and without it, your life might wander, right? So Napoleon Hill also wrote um conversations with uh no um conversations with the devil.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

I'm spacing on the exact title of the book, but um he's basically saying that drifting is the devil's work. So not having some kind of um intention, which I believe is spiritual, because you you have to come from a space of what does your heart really, really want? What does your soul really want out of you in this life? And if you can set that, and your life will set it in motion, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

So great. And you know, a couple things like just jump out in that for me, right? So um I a hundred percent agree. I think you know, we children, and I I love to use the exam analogy or talk about kids because they are such powerful manifestors, right? Oh, yeah. Like they just like the the the time between a child before the age of five expressing what they want and getting it in reality is very, very small. And they can want anything. They're just such like they they can literally want anything. And through our societies and and the way we raise and teach and educate, I think we really kill that wanting muscle. By the time we become adults, our wanting muscle, our ability to express desire is so weakened. And to the point of like many of us feeling like expressing our wants and desires is selfish, is you know, like wrong. Um, so not only are we not able to even really fully articulate what it is we want or think in terms of what we want, we have a lot of really limiting beliefs around expressing what we want and having what we want. If at all it seems like that might impact in some way negatively other people. And, you know, I still like being here in Bali, I left two of my sons are still back in Canada. My youngest son is 16, and I still actively engage, like I'm working on it and transforming it. And Keegan's got nothing going on it, but this notion that as a mother, I've abandoned my kid, right? Like, and he's well taken care of and he's nurtured and his dad is doing a great job. And and he's just so proud of me. He's like, mom, you're you're you're living your dream and you're going out there making a difference. And, you know, I'm like so proud of you. Like I get to know every day that my mom's out there making, you know, transforming the world. And so he doesn't have that conversation going on. But so, like, you know, there's so much to I I like the analogy of the little crabs, you know, the ones that crawl around and create their houses on them as they with debris from the ocean floor or the sand, the beach. I feel like we're that's us as human beings, right? We start off and then as we go through life, we build this house of beliefs and debris from life that gets stuck on us, right? So, like that's one piece of it. I think super important. And and and sometimes the access to that is what you don't want, because I think for some people, they can't even get to what I want. They have to kind of start from what don't I want anymore, right? And and what doesn't work for me anymore in my life. And then you can start to kind of build some capacity around what it is that I want.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Um absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Yeah, I think, and I I had another point, but this is what happens when you dance in conversation, Eve.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Sometimes the people I love the dance, I love it. And I love that you brought up children because in indigenous cultures and shamanic uh, you know, cultures that still study and practice shamanism, um, they watch the kids and they watch what they're good at. So the kids who gravitate towards building, they're gonna put them with the builder to apprentice. The kids who gravitate towards cooking, they're just gonna naturally apprentice with, you know, the cooks, the hunters, the healers, right? So that's not a mechanism we have built into our society. And I think that it kind of comes down to the parent noticing what the child's natural skills are and um helping them develop those skills. And many parents do that, you know, they might notice that um, well, the uh the tennis sisters, and again, I'm spacing um their names.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

The Williams sisters, yes, the Williams sister, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:30

So, I mean, their dad kind of according to the story had them to be tennis stars, but they had to have some natural proclivity to that athletic, you know, and they had to have that drive. So he had a plan for them, but I feel like their DNA, their, you know, souls came into this life also with that plan, and maybe even chose that father who could develop that side of them, who could bring out that actual purpose, if you will, to you know, play a sport and inspire the world and inspire young women of every age and color to, you know, really bring out the best of themselves. So it's that I do think it's innate, and in indigenous cultures, they call it our original medicine. What is your original medicine that your soul came here to sow? And that's what I feel is one of the things we can tap into through a spiritual practice. We can begin to really get in touch with that. This is who I am. I'm gonna let go of the guilt that I feel as a mom of leaving my family behind because I'm following my heart, my original medicine, what my soul came here to do. Um, and that's the most important thing. And of course, your family is gonna love you just as much and more.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Yeah, it's really great. And and there have been up, there's opportunities for growth for them as well, right? Because I think um, like when you when you change those dynamics, and like all of a sudden, when something changes in an environment, then other things grow, right? And other capabilities get expressed and developed. And and and I can definitely see that in in both of my sons and my family in and as a whole, because they tended to be a very kind of like a focal point for the family. And and when that shifts a little bit, then all of a sudden other people's leadership and and abilities get to get to shine in in different ways. And you know, we've been having this conversation um in my family over the last couple of days about like being a cycle breaker. And I I just like I shared it on social media, but it's this, you know, the quote is, and I don't know who it's from, but never underestimate a cycle breaker. Not only do they experience years of generational trauma, but they stood in the face of this trauma and fought to say this ends with me, this is brave, this is powerful, this comes at a significant cost. Never underestimate a cycle breaker. And I like I hear that in what you're talking about, right? And and even if this is one of my other my commitments is to normal, I don't want to say normalize, but humanize the conversation around trauma, because I think so many people hear that word and they're like, oh, I wasn't raped or I didn't live through war or my life wasn't that bad. But it's like the the, I think for me, and I I know like Gabor Matei's definition of trauma is what happens in the body as a function of our circumstances or what happens internally. But for me, it's like to the the conversation around trauma is this is what happens when you live in a world that's disconnected from source, where people are disconnected from each other, where where there are barriers and generational barriers, whether there are conversations in families about limiting beliefs or you know, men growing up believing like we had this conversation last night. I think it's you know, it's possible that that there is a network of conversations that says that real men can't be traumatized. And and what's the impact of that on men themselves and then on their sons and daughters and families. And you know, so to me, trauma is way more than you know what many people think or express the conversation about trauma, you know, what they think trauma is. And so it's so important for us to have conversations like this and and allow people to see, like when we talk about being a cycle breaker, maybe what being a cycle breaker is like living a created life, not continuing to do the things that you think you should do because that's what what other people would want for you, or other your parents think is the right way to spend your life, but having the courage to say, no, I'm I'm gonna go create my life based on what it is that I authentically want and my purpose and why I was created. And maybe that's being because I think I just got that in this conversation because I think I always like when I heard cycle breakers, I thought about it from the context of, you know, a lot of my own experience in my family of origin, um, you know, generational childhood molestation and abuse and and and things like that. But I think being a cycle breaker is is much bigger than that and and way more inclusive. It's it's anyone who is out there in their life, regardless of their experiences, who's who's saying, no, I'm not gonna just keep continuing with things the way that they've been inside of some conversation of how things should be.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Absolutely. I mean, what you're saying is truly profound because there are so many different types of trauma, and there is generational and ancestral trauma, and that's coming more and more to you know the forefront of our minds as people are talking about it and getting into these um, you know, sort of spiritual ideas of healing because trauma can be held on every level, and that's something I learned in studying craniosacral therapy is I could be working on the physical body, and I might tap into um what's called an energy cyst that's being held in that body, and all of a sudden the person starts shaking and crying and reliving a traumatic experience, and I had to be trained to help them talk it out and release it, you know. And when that does happen, we release on every level, and there's an it I think healing is incremental, you know, and and trauma is it's so insidious, and it can be you know, we've talked about different for every person. Like I just um heard a woman talk of a story where she wasn't allowed to cry if she was sent, if she ever cried as a child, she was sent to her room until she was ready to be happy again, and so she never learned how to process those emotions, and so she had to go back to that, you know, inner child and say, Hey, it's okay to cry, you know, it's okay to feel. And yes, you want to put a limit on it, you know, like we don't want to be crying 24-7. We want to maybe set a timer and cry for 10 minutes and then say, okay, now I'm gonna get up and do the dishes. You know, and in that way we can release that trauma, we can release those emotions and you know, and really be present. You talked about before the show, being present to, you know, where we're at now and what's needed in this moment.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Yeah, and it, you know, and I think I love what you said about it being different for everyone. I I remember, you know, so for me, the beginning of really um starting to do that that work on the emotional level. And and in this conversation, I'm just really getting there's, you know, there's I mean, I think it's a it's a journey. I don't think there's anywhere to get to about it, but I think there are probably other opportunities or, you know, for for growth in this area, even for me. But I remember it started with a friend of mine dying, and for the first time in my life, I took a day off work to be able to grieve their passing. And and I'd never, and even though, and it was funny because one of my my um my bosses at the University of Toronto where I teach, you know, when I said I was canceling my classes, and like every time that day I said, I actually had to get permission from a friend of mine to even do it, you know, and she's like, I you know, you don't need my permission, but if you do, I'm telling you you can take the day off. And and this may sound strange for some people, but when like your predominant way of getting value and and being worthy as a human being is through taking care of other people and through your work, you know, and you've kind of created your whole entire life that way. And it's like you you I you relate to yourself as like someone who has to or must or should, you know, do certain things. Even taking a day off work like that. And I remember every message I sent to a coaching client when I messaged my students to say, I'm canceling, there's been a death in my family. I'm can't like I felt nauseous and sick. Like it would, and but what Lee said to me was she goes, given how much you love people, of course you're you're taking the day. And to God, there was a real um disconnect with who who people are for me and my unwillingness, like my inability to to take the space and the time to actually be with when when those people who were you know who I love, you know, passed on to a different part of their journey. And it literally it was months of you know crying. And it was not like every moment of the day, but I remember being on the phone with one of my closest support people and saying like is it ever going to freaking stop? Like am I ever going to stop crying? And I promise you you will stop crying. Like for so for some of us who've got decades of repressed emotion and not, you know, it might there might be a period of time I think where the floodgates open and you've got a lot of energy to release and and um in in and the tears will stop eventually. I think part of it for me was just allowing myself the freedom to just release a lot of things that I had been holding on to. And I had done a lot of that work at the ontological level at the level of language and at the level of thought and I'm still like the this is my my my next development is kind of at the level of my body and my physical out my physicality and my emotional experience. So um thank you I you know thank you for being a new partner in my journey you know everyone shows up for a reason. I I you know thank you for being someone who has your life be congruent and a demonstration of your commitments and and that you actually live your life that way. I think that's so important um especially when we you know people do the kind of work that we do um and and just thank you for being someone out there having this conversation and keeping this conversation alive for people because I think people are starving for it and it's really important and um and especially in uh especially in the healthcare profession you know I think we have a system of really codependent martyrs people who are just like you know and there are other ways I think there are other ways and I I don't say that in any way to diminish I there's such a a deep commitment to serve people and and take care of people's well-being but I think you know there are better ways that we could be doing that and and so thank you for being someone whose life is about helping people see that and discover that for themselves.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Thank you and thank you for having me and yes that's absolutely you you keep saying these just brilliant things but you know it's not up to the doctor to heal the person right it's up to the person. And so when each individual gets that empowerment then they go to the doctor with more solutions than problems you know and they're helping the doctor to figure things out rather than expecting the doctor to be this you know all-powerful person which we're not um but what is all-powerful is our spirit's ability to overcome trauma and emotional and physical abuse and you know so many things that uh to tap into and yes I feel we could keep this conversation going and growing it's been wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

There will definitely be more to come for anyone listening to the show today thank you so much for joining us and I hope you are have taken away as much as I have from this conversation with Eve you can find out how to connect with her and her new programs and buy a copy of of her book uh in the show notes and um Eve just thank you so much for for your time and the gift of your presence and the work that you do in the world um it really makes a difference.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Likewise Amber it's been wonderful to be here.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Yeah for everyone we'll see you we've um we'll see you next week thank you so much for joining us and I love you all thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode for more information on the show and our extraordinary guests check out what would Amber Do dot com