SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard, your weekly dose of guidance, inspiration, and strategies to have your small business and whole life thrive. We bring you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being an entrepreneur so you can have your whole life work. Now, here's your host, Amber Howard.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Welcome back, everyone, to What Would Amber Do? It really is my privilege this morning to be talking with Laura Martin. Laura is the CEO and co-founder of Lingo Learning. She is a speaker and mortgage broker, award-winning executive. And who I've known Laura to be since I met her is a fierce advocate for diversity inclusion. She is a visionary business executive and a thought leader entrepreneur and strategist. Laura, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me this morning.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Thank you, Amber. It's my pleasure to talk to people that are interested in growing into being the successful and uh grounded entrepreneur they want to be.

unknown 1:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

So thank you for that. And again, thank you for being here. And it really, I thought we'd start off by talking, like you are, for me anyway, and I think anyone who probably knows you a force of nature. And so talk to me a little bit about like what has your journey been like to get to here, and what what drives you to show up that way in life?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Well, I think first of all, thank you. Um, and I don't think there's any other way to live life except for fully and with conviction. So um as someone that, like everyone else, has gone through struggles, instead of resolving to just get through them, I decided that I wanted to go deep into what was holding me back, what was wrong with the system, that it couldn't support me in the way that I needed it to, and then resolved to change it so that others didn't have to maybe have such a hard time. So um one way that kind of presented itself and bled into everything else was with mental health. I really struggled with um with depression and things like that as a teenager, as I mentioned on Bell Let's Talk Day, and I know that caught your interest. So I guess um it does really tie into uh going and and rising up from the ashes stronger because you know I I was my own worst enemy. I had a lot of maladaptive coping mechanisms. And when you don't show love for yourself, and when when you're not able to support yourself, you really cannot be there for others. So I went on a long path um through university, studying cognitive science and mindfulness and psychology, and um, then later business psychology, and um also having gone through therapy and things like that. So I got a really great, well-rounded perspective on what it takes to be mentally resilient, what it takes to live a fulfilling and meaningful life. And the answer to that was a few things. It was give more than you take and um don't live with regrets, right? Like if you really strongly feel compelled to do something, to open a business, to to be in love or to to break something off, um, to to do something radical, to say something from your heart, do it. Um, do it because the world does really value authenticity. And if you are speaking your truth, and if you're coming from a place where your your values and your actions are aligned, that is what your force is. That's where you live into your power. So stop sugarcoating things, stop pretending everything's okay, and start to look deeply into fundamentally um what's wrong in your world and how you can fix it.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

So good. So many things I heard in there. The the first is like like the power of decision. This morning in my I was studying this morning, and I was studying decision and like the idea that once you actually decide, not think about one, oh I might or I could, but like, no, like who you are is this is happening. Then and and without any thought to the how of it, but it's like, no, this is what I want, and I'm going after it. Then all of the things, the planets align, the resources show up in order for you to be able to fulfill on it. But first we have to actually make that decision. And I I know for myself, so much of my life there was like ambivalence. It's like, should I do it or not? Should I speak my truth or not? Do I do I say that thought or not? You know, can I can I be that seen? Can I be that vulnerable? And uh I'm really have come to understand for myself anyway, that ambivalence is like mentally not a good play. Like when you're trying to hold two things at the same time in your own mind, um, you know, that you want something and at the same time engaging in that fear or doubt or worry or what have you, um, it can be very paralyzing for people.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Absolutely. And as I, you know, studied cognitive processes, that was just it, right? Like there's no room for ambivalence. You need to take in your surroundings and decide and move forward with that decision and really live into that decision on a daily basis. Um, and there's no room for negative self-talk, there's no room for you know, staying in that anxiety loop and the what if and everything's gonna fail. And, you know, things become things are perilous, you know, in life, everything is by a thread. One day we're healthy, the next we're not, you know. So um it's really important to be clear about what direction you want to head into and fearlessly just pursue that and wake up with that fire in your belly. And it also helps to go to bed, like sort of telling yourself how the next day is gonna go and just take it day by day.

unknown 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

You also talked about permission. Like what I heard in what you were saying is like when I'm being authentic, when I'm being real about like the good, the bad, and the ugly, like all of it, when I'm showing up in life being fully seen, my words not necessarily yours, but I give permission to other people to do the same. And I think when we're alone within our own minds with all of our negative thoughts and all of that stuff, we're alone with it. And then the minute we speak it, we suddenly realize that oh, this is just part of the condition of what it is to be a human being. We all deal with this in some way, shape, or form. But it's in the voicing of it that all of a sudden we go from being like alone with these these burdens in our own minds to like part of a community of other human beings who are all kind of going through this journey and just discovering and living life.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

And I think that's a really big part of the role that femininity plays in this paradigm shift in business, because we were sold that to be uh powerful in business, you need to be um detached and cold and objective, and you know, you can't show emotions or vulnerability. But that's not the case because what you're doing there is you're just kind of riding that fence all the time, and you're not doing anything different or special or better. So you cannot expect a promotion, you cannot expect to have a ground baking company, you cannot expect to have a group of raging fans that love what you have to offer because you didn't say anything that hit their heart, you just rode that fence and stayed on that line. So it's so important to remember that you are not for everyone. Everyone is not for you. It is much better to have a small group of people that you're deeply impacting and that are there for you and your cheerleaders, than to have everyone think, you know, Amber, yeah, she's nice. I like her. She's all right.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Well, I I I I agree. And it it starts with you just like getting real with yourself, I think, and and being honest with yourself about what is it that they're what is it that I have to offer that's unique and distinct from other people? Like what is what am I here to be in service of and to speak about that maybe other people are unwilling to to talk about or or don't know that they can even talk about. We've you know, you brought up mental health. I think they're as entrepreneurs, like I would love to hear your thoughts on, because there's a lot of there's been a lot of movement in in corporations around providing supports to around mental health league employee assistance programs and all of this different stuff. And for most entrepreneurs are starting out, they don't really have that. So, what are some of the things that you you see that people can do, or some of the the barriers perhaps that entrepreneurs and small business owners, whatever, come up against around dealing with mental health?

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Um, I think people don't recognize when they're burned out as a start. Like burnout isn't absolutely a thing, and uh especially with the pandemic and the lockdown and people having this huge added stress of childcare on top of your business. That was not the deal, man. And like I speak from the heart with this, like I was outraged and am outraged. And then I thought about solutions and just made it happen because this is the reality we're in, right? So um, the biggest thing you can do is to again ask for the help and get the help you need. Um, it's word is it's weighed in gold uh to do that. So some things that you can do to support your mental health include like um creating a mindfulness routine. So, like I suggest downloading the Insight Timer app and they have guided meditations, um, music meditations, meditation courses, just five, 10 minutes a day. Lock yourself away from your kids, whatever you have to do. Um, I highly recommend a mindfulness practice just to grind like to ground you and remember that thoughts and feelings come and go, and that's not you, that's just the circumstances, right? Um, and then secondly, really mind your impulse control and stress tolerance because it is not okay to flip out on people. It is not okay, right? Like, don't be that boss, don't be that manager, don't be that mom or father. Um you need to really make a commitment to yourself that like you're going to present yourself with like love and compassion and resilience and just be extra kind to yourself and to others. And you'll find that, you know, the more, I guess, quote, good vibes you put out there, the more that'll come back. But um, you just really have to guard yourself from burnout, from you know, being impulsive and um giving in to stressful emotions.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

I hear like the difference between reacting versus responding. Right. So it's like, and one of the ways, like for myself, one of the things that I took on over the holidays and I'm carrying on is like putting a bubble around myself. And it's not to keep people away, it's not about that. It's like I'm keeping the bubble clean from the inside. So I'm being responsible for my own mind and my thoughts and using the tools I have to like to be present and and be aware, like kind of bringing conscious awareness to my internal state, and then also protecting the bubble from the outside. Like, what am I letting in in terms of the things that I'm listening to? Like, you know, the shows that I'm watching, the the TV, like I don't watch television, but the feeds on Facebook and stuff like that. I'm I'm being super responsible as well for kind of the influences that I let in from the outside. Because when you're someone who gives a damn like you and I do, and like is here to really make a big difference, it can be easy to like get caught up in the election or COVID media and and be like, oh, the problems are so big, I'm just one person that for for me, I kind of like have learned to tune a lot of that out. And it's not that I don't care about what's happening in the world. I I absolutely do. And I just know that in order to stay empowered, I kind of have to put some blinders on.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

I highly recommend media and social media diets. Cut way down. Cut way, way, way, way down. I remember in March, I was looking at the COVID number counter, like religiously daily, and I I don't even think I visited that site in months.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Um I remember that too. I wonder how many people like remember going through that at the beginning of COVID, where it's like every couple times a day. Oh, what are the numbers now? Oh, what are the numbers in New Zealand and all of the places I care about?

SPEAKER_02 13:30

It does no good to stress about things you have zero control over.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

It does none. Um, and what you said about the Bobble is bang on too. Like, obviously, I'm not impervious to black bad moods. So if I am in, you know, if it's if it's like that, then I just don't communicate with people. I just do things that are more introverted. Yeah, I think that's part of it. Right. Like for me, uh, part of my career is like very sales oriented. And uh I'm a borderline introvert extrovert. So it like I do extroversion, but it takes a lot out of me. So I generally have like one or two days marked for being on the phone more heavily and things like that, creating content. And then the other few days are marked for like um more quiet work, like behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

I think that's part of being responsible, right? Is like knowing how you how you thrive and what you need in order to be able to take care of yourself so you can be of the best service possible and bring the greatest value to people. Uh I know that for much of my life, I'd say probably till the beginning of COVID, I like filled everyone else's cup up. And then, you know, there was never anything left because I was so busy filling everyone else's cup up. But since COVID, I've really like I start my days at 5 a.m. and like I don't start work till eight. The first three hours of my day are studying and meditation and gratitude and affirmations and you know, being physically active, like going for a walk.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Um read the morning miracle. I the miracle morning from Yeah, I did actually.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

I I read that. Well, I have this site that does like Cole's notes of books like that. So I kind of I read read through that, but I I mean I think it's very important how you start your day, just the tone.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Um it's literally science, people. It's science. If you want to be successful, you have to wake up early, unless you are extremely effective as a night owl. Of course, there are some people that fall into that, but there's something about like a fresh mind when you wake up and then putting good things into it, like meditation and reading and a great podcast. I like to listen to like um motivational talks from like um Goggins or or Robbins or whomever while I'm doing my makeup, even right. Like it's just constant, constant hype squad.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah. I it's it's it's just made a really big difference in the way I live my life. And like not just like not my not even like my effectiveness at achieving the things that I want, because that's been there, but it's like the experience of being alive and like my ability to ongoingly create the experience of my life and being alive.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Conscious creation, that's just it. And um, not just sort of falling into what you're doing, right? Like um, I know you wanted to talk about a bit of like disruption, right? And I think disruption has a bad name, and then you called it an interruption. Uh, that was in our pre-talk.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

So um Yeah, and to give some kind of a little bit of context for people listening, Laura is probably perceived by other people to be a disruptor in the spaces that she's in, because you know, one of the things that you're like a fierce stand for and like really committed, deeply committed to is diversity inclusion, and that, you know, that in all of the spaces that you operate in, that everyone is fully represented and given a chance for their voice to be heard. And that's not the norm in some of those spaces, especially the mortgage industry. You know, that's the one I'm most present to. So I wanted to talk about the difference because I think you're right, like what we said, that disrupted being a disruption is seen to have a negative connotation. But really, what we're talking about is being an interruption to the status quo or the way things have been in the past, so that something new can emerge.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah. And of course, this always comes out of outrage, right? When you see something that could be done better, should be done better, um, or or a pattern of behavior that's really just done out of um status quo, you know. So obviously, if you're looking at spaces like tech or the financial services industry, these are some of the oldest um, you know, male-dominated forces out there, right? Especially in tech, it's like 85 to 15%, you know, representation for women. And then in both cases, when you get to the C-suite, um, there's still only about 15% women represented in leadership as like senior VP um or executives. And it's worse once you start factoring in people of color and whatnot. Now you're down to four percent female CEOs. In fact, there are more CEOs named John on the Fortune 500 list than total women. Dude, what there were 17 Johns and like seven women. So this is a problem. And guess what? The Johns don't think it's a problem. They don't think it's a problem, they're cool. So we, the not Johns, you know, the not Sarah's and all that, we need to speak up if we want to see a change. And a lot of people are speaking up by leaving their corporations where there's a glass ceiling and starting their own business. And power to you if you've done that. Um, because corporations do change at a very slow rate. Um, for those of you that are wondering how you can be disruptive in this particular way, I started by first I built influence. Okay. So, first of all, no one cares about what you have to say unless you have a following, kind of thing. Uh, or unless you find a center of influence that can amplify your message. So, you know, going on a popular podcast or show, um, or for myself, I did the work over the last five years and built up my LinkedIn followership to 30,000 people. So now that I have a followership and I regularly share um and express my ideas, I what had a captive audience when I said, hey, um, the mortgage industry needs to change. Why is it that in this publication there's 36 spots, three are women, 33 are men. And by the way, eight of those are the same two men.

unknown 20:01

Again, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:02

So what happens is in these um in these ancillary sort of publications and awards and and or even like uh systems of promotions and things like that, they have repetitive ways that they do things that they haven't really thought about changing, right? It's like, oh, the system works, this is fine. So you have to be vocal and say the system doesn't work for everyone. It works for some, it works for you because you're too lazy to change it, but it's actually extremely detrimental for this 40% of people over here. So I I wrote an open letter and made a video and things like that. And the results was that half of the mortgage industry, which is women, came out with pitchforks and said, What? Yeah, this isn't cool. And they all, of course, had their own stories about how they were looked over for promotions, how they were treated disrespectfully. Women are interrupted at a rate of three to one to men. So even when you're just having a conversation among co-workers and leaders, you can't get your ideas expressed without being attacked for no reason. It's not even like they have a vested interest in the conversation, right? Like people with half your talent are taking credit for 100% of what you're doing. You know what I mean? So you need to have confidence in when you say, listen, there's a better way to do this. I have a solution, or I hope you consider these various things. Um, and people will say I'm courageous and brave and all those things, but honestly, it doesn't feel that way. It just feels like talking facts, right? Like there's so much data. So if you just arm yourself with data, you can get rid of that little voice in the back of your head that says, oh, someone's not going to like this. Right. And indeed, heads did roll. And someone out there does hate Laura Martin and was cursing my name that day, for sure. But ultimately, like there, that's a growing pain. That's a necessary growing pain. And the result was the first ever diversity panel at the Mortgage Awards. It was me getting 20 women spots in that magazine over the next six, seven months because they kept saying, oh, you know, there's just not enough expert opinions. I'm like, what are you talking about? Here's 20. Here's 20, literally, here's 20 names done. Go talk to them. So I wasn't just trying to do it for me. It wasn't because Laura wanted a spot at these conference panels. That was the result. But I made sure to lift and climb, you know, to do both, to bring everyone I could over that fence with me. And that just made everything stronger, right? The voice of this resounding idea that women need to get uh women and people of color need to get fair representation in media outlets, um, in leadership and things like that uh was really my message. And it was a very clear message that I had data behind, and I kept saying it.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

It's so you know, from the work I've done in neurolinguistic programming, like we know that people are constantly filtering, like before you're even aware, like our perception of this thing that we call reality is filtered before you even perceive it by generalizations, distortions, deletions, all of that. And so what I what I'm present to in what you're saying, Laura, is when we're in interest, like those people who would be standing there, you know, those leaders in the mortgage industry who would be standing there saying there's no expert opinions, they have a point of view, a view of the world, a perception that gives them that information back. When they scan the world, they don't see the experts. So it's like, and and it's like we can sit here and make people wrong for that. I mean, it's just they have they view the world the way they view the world. And without people like you willing to be an interruption and say, well, no, hold on a second. I got that, that's your view. And this is in fact the truth. Here's 20 women that are experts in this industry, and they're more than happy to contribute their expertise and sh of in service of other people. All of a sudden, people that their awareness grows, they're forever changed because you and I both know that once you become aware of something, you can't unknow it. You know, we might forget we know it sometimes, but it the knowledge is there, and and so by you stepping into that role of saying, no, hold on a second, there's another view of life, there's another view of the world. This is my view, and and I think, yeah, it's just very powerful.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

And um, for all the the male like leaders, right? They were like, Oh, but you know, my senior manager is a woman and my marketing director's a woman and stuff like that. I'm like, Oh, they are sounds like they're really smart. Pass the mic. Next time someone asks you for a speaking engagement, say, I'd like my marketing director to actually feel that because she is running my entire marketing operation. So um, that really kind of quieted them too, right? Because it's like, again, like, yeah, good for you. You've hired these people. You just acknowledge their brilliance. You know, now you need to acknowledge that they need your help in being widely accepted as an expert. You need to help their career in a way that doesn't necessarily serve you directly.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

So the um, I don't know if you're familiar with the work, you just reminded me of the work like about passing the mic and men giving those opportunities. I don't know if you're familiar with the work of a gentleman by the name of Jackson Katz, but he like he talks about, he created the bystander approach and he talks about uh like in the and he's working in the world of domestic violence and and you know, male male.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

I've heard of the yeah, the bystander approach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

So he there's an amazing TED talk he did where he literally talks about the structure of language and how the way we language domestic violence and and these these issues, you know, gender violence, all of that, excludes men from the conversation and excludes men from a conversation that is predominantly about men. So and he and he talks about power dynamics and just that the way language we structure it, you know, when people hear gender violence, they think women. When people hear homosexuality, they or sexuality, they think gay. When people hear, you know, um racial identity, they think someone of color, like white people don't have an identity, and men don't have a like heterosexual people don't have a sexual identity. And, you know, and it allows the dominant group to go unexamined in the dialogue. This is what he says that because because we into like in our language and in our minds, we associate, you know, gender violence is associated with women, we don't examine men when, according to Katz, and I'm inclined to agree based on my own experience, that the the dominant group that needs to be included in that conversation is men, because predominantly the the perpetrators of violence towards women and children, both male and female, are adult men.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

I often ask fact, right? Um yeah, it is facts, and that's exactly it. It's and um, you know, the whole argument for women being in these places was much easier than the anti-racism statements I was making. So I did come up against heavy um criticism and sort of pushback when I started making statements like Black Lives Matter, or that um, you know, it's not okay for you to sit there as someone that um, you know, is white, let's say and is male, and let's say that you're from um, you know, a place that is predominantly uh white, like let's say out of town somewhere. And um, you know, you're gonna be around people that say super ignorant things. And if you do not check them, if you do not say, actually, the reason that they're saying this is because they need to or what have you. Um, actually, I just need to pause for a sec. So the hardest thing was probably to get the message across that being anti-racist is not political. So I was getting pushback from lenders and um, you know, bit larger corporate entities in these industries when I was saying, like, hey, like, why can't you stand behind people with this, right? Like, can you put out an anti-racism statement? Can you consider looking at your policies? Can you consider looking at your hiring structures? Can you consider making diversity initiatives for you know a 10% increase, right? Something. Do something. And, you know, basically, I kept getting pushback with it's not really a problem here. Or, you know, what do you mean? We had a black president, or you know, all these kind of tokenism things, or oh, what do you mean? I'm married to a black person, I'm not racist, right? And it's like, listen, I'm not trying to beat you over the head with this, but if you cannot acknowledge something as basic as white privilege, like, come on, man. Like, I'm sorry if you grew up poor and things like that, but you can go anywhere in the world and get treated better and differently. You know, you can be just driving your car and get pulled over less. You you benefit in ways that you don't yet understand. So I was trying to kind of get the message across that, you know, especially around the time that um there was that horrific incident and um George Floyd and you know, Ahmad Aubrey, and like it was really a lot of outrage kind of coinciding with the pandemic. And because of the pandemic, you know, these atrocities got more attention and we got some momentum. So in this period, I was grieving honestly, like I was so upset at the way that they dehumanize people of color in so many ways, and at every turn, right? And you know, as a leader in a company, if you're not showing empathy and and understanding for the people that work for you that share this plight, then you're completely tone-deaf and you're gonna lose them and they're not gonna feel seen or heard or appreciated. So it's it's really important that if you're sick of hearing these conversations about racism and white privilege, you do something about it. You do something about it, and then it's gonna go away sooner. The only time it's gonna go away is when we get everyone on board with the fact that white privilege is a thing, that systemic racism is a thing, that we need to have more, you know, proportional representation at all levels of our industries, and that um, you know, it's not political. It's not like I said I'm pro-abortion or anti-abortion. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about being pro-human equality. So getting that message across, I had to do it carefully but and repetitively. But I mean, I think that I got somewhere when I was able to influence other leaders that were white men, right? That were in that dominant group that's unexamined, to start to go to bat for people like that weren't them, right? People of color, and to start infiltrating, you know, their grandmother that said something mildly racist and things like that. Like you have to stand up for that. You have to have a backbone and just sort of slowly work at them and take the heat off of us because we can't do it without you.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Well, I think that's like, you know, a Katz's point is like that, like so much we that the work to transform this shouldn't be pre putting in this case, in his in his space that he works in, on women and young men, that it's male leadership that's really missing here. And and you know, those men who aren't racist or who aren't perpetrators of violence, being will like being that interruption when you're at the poker table and someone makes a comment about a woman or a racist joke, not just sitting silent, you know, especially when there's no one else around where it looks good to make the comment because you might get something out of it, but saying, No, like I got a sister man, please don't talk about women that way. I remember like my youngest son, when my eldest son, Matthew, he used to work in a factory and he would come home at the end of the day. And, you know, he was raised by a single mom, he was raised by a single mom, like, and he would come home. And I've I've taught him to be very respectful of women, but also really self-expressed around what he wants and you know, with that with a healthy idea of how to be able to be in a relationship with women. And he would say, Mom, like I would literally come home at six o'clock, like it would start at six o'clock in the morning and all day long, like the conversations about women and the way women were being spoken about and and all of this. And and they would like often like look at him as weird because they'd be like, Well, what are you doing tonight? And he's like, I'm gonna hang out with my ex-girlfriend, and be like automatically assumption that he's gonna go get it, you know, get something from her. And he said, No, she's just my friend. I want to hang out with her. But it's like, you know, that in and of itself, like him just speaking, like was an interruption, like had them caught pause and challenge their thinking. I I just it's so much more powerful coming from a peer every time. Absolutely. And you know, Kate Kate says men can speak in spaces where he and he, I mean, I love it at the beginning of his TED talk, he really acknowledges women's leadership because he says if it weren't for women's leadership, and one of the things that you know, the so-called good men who are standing up because you know, can do is actually acknowledge the the female leadership that's even had this conversation, get to where it is. But it's like just acknowledging that based on the way the world works right now, there are spaces that men can speak into and get heard in a way that women, women's voices aren't heard in the same way. And and really, I think I'm reminded right now that when all of that was happening with like Black Lives Matter and George Floyd and where where the Black community was saying to those of us that consider ourselves to be advocates and supportive and wanting to make a difference, like that actually requires you to come, like it's it's not just something you get to say. And I had to examine myself about like that. Like, am I actually really showing up? Like I say I believe these things, but am I actually really showing up? And how could I show up even more for you know, other human beings that I really care about so that we can actually end and see, and I do believe that we will that in in our lifetimes that we will see a cessation and and a destruction of those systems of like racism and things like that and inequality for everyone. But I think the same for men, right? We require your advocacy, like we don't require you just to say, oh, I love women and I've got a like great relation. Like it's like we require you to start being in interruption.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yeah. And I would so often hear, like, oh, you know, well, I've got a daughter, and so now I care about like women's rights. It's like, yeah, but like even if you didn't, right? Like everyone's got a mom and a daughter practically. So, like, you know, what are you doing? And again, just to I guess put a pin in this conversation on um, you know, disruption and diversity, um, like I'm half white and I grew up in a white neighborhood, and my, you know, most of my family is white, and uh I have lighter skin and I have nicer hair than the super, you know, um, like I have more fine curls. And um so I benefit from whiteness too, uh not to mention class, right? Like I benefit from high education and never ever going hungry and going to summer camp and all these things, right? So again, like just walking around in non-white skin didn't make me an advocate and it didn't make me someone that suffers at the hand of systemic racism like others do. And I think it was really then, uh like in March, April, that I um said, like, you know what? Like, I am I'm part of this group and my heart bleeds for this group, and I need to use that other half of me that has the ear of people that are not in this group to help advocate for change. So yeah, it's really important.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

I and I love what you're saying, and I think how we frame the conversation is so important. I think for for anyone listening to this, saying acknowledging white privilege isn't saying that you've done something wrong. It's an opportunity, I you know, it's an opportunity to acknowledge something that when it's not acknowledged just doesn't get examined, and we people don't take responsibility for the impact that that has. It's not, you know, and yeah, you can have struggle. We all have struggles in life. What it's saying is you can have struggles in life. And if you're a black person or a person of color, that your struggles are going to be further amplified by the fact that you don't have white skin. And, you know, you can expand that even further. If you're a black woman of color or a LGBTQ, you know, like it's like you just compound the the the impact of those different privileges that exist for, you know, and I think that's important to acknowledge. It's not that anyone's wrong, it's that we have a choice to make in in how we how we deal with and how we show up in life for because this is like I think this is something that we gets missed. We are all one, really. We're all energy. That's my belief. And so when when you're diminished for any reason, that diminishes me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Absolutely. And I mean, when you are someone that's like a bleeding heart, like you and I, especially in again, these spaces like you know, finance for inter in for instance, where people are generally quote unquote like conservative and have conservative values and things like that. So, you know, when I have 4,000 people on my Facebook and a thousand of them are like my university friends and my high school friends, and they're more radical and left-leaning, like myself. And then I've got these 3,000 strangers that are just like industry people, you know, some of my posts started getting really heated, or sometimes I'd be scrolling my feed and see something that was like deeply disturbing to me. And it was again that impulse control where it's like, okay, am I gonna die on this hill today? Or am I gonna unfollow you?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yes, it's just not right.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Choosing your battles, I think there's wisdom in that consider the medium because people on social media, like the likelihood of a constructive conversation where you actually change someone's opinion is very low. Mostly people just came there to be right. Yeah, they didn't came come there to learn in most cases, right? So you have to kind of assess that. You know, if you have someone that seems like they could be reasoned with, like they're listening to both sides, that's one thing. But oftentimes when people are hard right or hard left, they're not really open to opposite opinions, and you're really just gonna stress yourself out. Again, this was after hours wasted trying to take this torch on, right? I'm not saying that this came naturally because, like I said, I'm kind of righteous, right? Like I get like all like uppity and I type really quickly and things. Um you can suck hours to that, so you you can't do that. Like, if you want to be disruptive, if you want your voice to be heard, you have to do it in a curated way, you know, where you get straight to the point, make a one-minute video, write a 200-word article, right? Like be um constructive and targeted with your message, don't just shoot it all over the place to people that don't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

I think that's like the responding versus reacting, right? Which is so powerful. I and one of the things that I've learned from myself is like given we all have our own map of the world, right, in our own minds, if I I it behooves me to get over there in your map. And and I'm reminded when I say that, my daughter is just finished police foundations at Sheridan, and she is committed to becoming a police force, police officer. And her goal is like a world where we don't need police services anywhere anymore. And starting with how do you bring restore trust both ways from the communities that police serve and the police that serve them? And I remember her coming home from class one day, and and she they had in the class they had watched a video and they were having a debate about racial profiling. And the whole conversation was like, Is this an example of racial profiling or not? And there were very passionate debates and arguments on both sides. And Kayla came home and she said, I really just discovered today, mom, that in order to be able to affect the change I want, I need to have US leadership. I can't have an opinion of my own. I have to be able to sit at the table and hear both sides and give both sides an opportunity to speak what they need to say so that we can create something new. And I just think, you know, that's that's something that's very powerful, that idea that, yeah, everyone's got an opinion, but how can I, and it's difficult, especially because like so many people's actions, like when I view someone's actions from my map of the world, oftentimes they're crazy. And I'm like, I look at certain leaders like the Donald Trumps, the whomever's, and it's like, I can't even comprehend from my map of the world how people can hate the way they do, or how people can behave the way that they do, or treat other people the way that they do. But if I want to make a for me anyway, my truth is that if I want to have a meaningful impact and make a difference, I have to at least be willing to try and see the world through your eyes so that I can understand how I can be of service to you in in having you just be open to the opportunity of discovering something new.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Absolutely. Um, and I think that's something that was hard for me too, just like tolerating you know, a far-right opinion where you know it's just it's hard. It can be hard, it can be hard for both sides, right? So it's I think it's it starts with finding common ground. And when you start off like that, you can get away with a lot more. So again, like and it's about active listening, right? Not listening for the differences, but listening for a shared principle and values that you can. Then sort of build on to create that kinship in that community.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Yeah, you and one of the things that I in hindsight like based on what this conversation, Laura, maybe we can just finish with your thoughts on this because I know you and I are both geeks and we both kind of love things sci-fi and superhero and and that kind of world. And this is something I know that doesn't actually get talked about a lot is like diversity and inclusion in women in the gaming community and like attitudes. And I think there's you know, some I'd love to hear kind of your thoughts or experiences, because that's another space where there's it's probably ripe for a lot of intro, you know, interruption and disruption.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Definitely. Um, in fact, black women make up the largest growing cohort of entrepreneurs statistically.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Um, so it's like, you know, basically we're not seeing ourselves represented. I mean, I will give uh hats off to, I guess, whoever's making films these days, Netflix or whomever, but you're starting to see the primary love interest is not a blonde. Oh my goodness, right? But like my entire childhood, at no point did I ever see someone that wasn't like a sidekick, like a B character that never got developed as a woman of color, like unless it was like all black people in a show, right? So um, and the same goes for like superheroes, like we need more diversity in terms of like what is a hero, and you know, what is someone that's uh a brainiac or a leader and things like that. Um, in terms of gaming, I'm not much of a gamer gamer, I'm more into chess.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Um I know that about you, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Arcade games, like I like the I don't know, I never developed past like 14 when it came to video games. But you know, like there's nerds of all kinds and shapes and colors, you know what I mean? Like nerdiness is everywhere and geekiness and things like that. And I think it's beautiful. And I it's just a shame that the people that are developing apps and games and software and things like that are not getting the same access to venture capital either. Uh at like astoundingly lower rates. Um, so again, it's kind of who you know, and then who Silicon Valley trusts. So if you were looking to get into those worlds um and you don't meet the status quo, like there's lots of like different funds. There's like the Black Opportunity Fund and like Black Entrepreneur Groups, and people are really starting to come together and pull their money and create their own grants and scholarships. And there's actually a ton of government grants for people that are looking to develop um products or create, you know, a summer camp or some kind of like initiative to get people into coding or things like that, like learning to code and make your own games and things like that. So there's definitely things out there, and I think that we need to ask ourselves if not me, then who?

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Well, I think that's a perfect spot to end the show for today. Yeah, for all of us, whoever's listening to this. If not me, then who? Like again, Gandhi, be the change that you want to see in the world starts with us. Thank you so much, Laura. For those of you listening, you can check out how to connect with Laura in the show notes. And and just thank you so much for being here today and having this conversation, which I hope will be the first of many.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Thank you so much, Amber, and uh keep on rocking. I will definitely do what Amber does.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For show info, visit what wouldamberdo.com. And for information about Amber Howard and Associates' offerings and services, visit amberhowdinc.com.