SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to What With Ember Do with your host, Amber Howard, your weekly post of guidance, inspiration, and strategies to have your small business and whole life thrive. We bring you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being an entrepreneur so you can have your whole life work. Now, here's your host, Amber Howard.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to What Would Amber Do. It is my absolute privilege and pleasure to have this morning on the show Beth Ostrander. Beth is a life pleasure coach and speaker. Beth's passion and purpose is to transform religious and cultural shame. Her invitation is to stop fixing and start discovering yourself. Beth and I have a very interesting journey and our friendship to share with you this morning. And Beth, I am just like overjoyed to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Ah, agreed. It'll be like a perma smile the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yeah, so why don't we just like kick it off with like so we worked together at the Greater Toronto Airports Authority. And I think at that time, like you can share your experience. But I mean, you were a person I saw in the the hallways and you know said hi to, and I asked for things from from time to time. And you know, it was very kind of casual, lovely experience. I mean, you're a lovely human being, but I really didn't know you that well.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yeah, I have the same. I have a memory of you, a smile here and there. And I thought, like I remember like catching smiles and be like, oh, I think she's really nice. But then we'd carry on, and there was nothing like nothing went anywhere. It's wow, it's sounding like a date missed.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Yeah, and then and then I have this memory that at some point in time you left the airport to go be a like work with people around, like and coach them around sex. And I had no idea what that was about, and I don't even know why. I I mean, in 2017 when I was doing the Introduction Leaders program, you came to my mind, right? I was like writing up a list of people I wanted to share landmark with, and I had no idea why you came to my based on our experience, like it was just a total moment of intuition, and like, you know, kids that meant to be, I called you on one of my agreements to be like, hey, how you doing? And have you ever heard of this thing called landmark? And I think it would make a real difference in your life. And of course, if you left the airport to go be a sex coach, you'd probably done the landmark forum, but that didn't flu in. And you were like, Are you at the center?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

And I was like, Oh, yeah. I remember I was at uh McDonald's, a feeling of slight shame sharing this, but I'm going to. I was at McDonald's with my kids because we had to like kill time in the play area. I wasn't cooking anything in my life back then. And I remember I had sent them off and I was taking this call with you. I will never forget that moment because it was like this jaw-dropping moment, because it was like, what is happening? This is the weirdest, most cool moment ever. It was actually really cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah, and you are such, oh my God, the soul connection I feel with you. Like, I and it's so funny that you can look back on a relationship, people come into your life through the strangest of circumstances. And you know, even if you don't necessarily connect on a very deep level, you know, people show up for a reason and then to go years, and then it's like, oh my God, like, you know, to be honest with all of you listening, we were literally just having like a gushing love moment before we record. Because it's and just like to be able to love someone so deeply, Beth. Like the, you know, every interaction I have with you, every conversation we ever have, uh, it's just so pleasurable and enjoyable, which is like what we're here to talk about this morning. And I'm so grateful for you know that I made that call that day, even though I have no idea why I made it, and and that I've got to kind of really deepen our connection. You are someone who is precious to me.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah, yeah, I feel the same. I literally was, yeah, you're right. We were like shaking my hands how much I loved you. It was a very fun moment a few moments ago. I just, yeah, it is an interesting thing to have that kind of intuitive moment, randomness. And then you follow those moments and you're like, oh my, I there's no way, there's no way I would have guessed smiling at you in the GTAA hall hallways where we are now and where our friendship is. I would never have guessed it. There's no possible way.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Yeah, and it it really is the experience. And it doesn't, you know, sometimes we'll go months without speaking because we're both up to some pretty big things in life. Yeah, but it's like the moment that we I hear your voice or I get a message from you, or you know, it's just like like so present to all of the love and the connection and just really like um I belong with you.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how it is. It is, and it and I think, and you I'm sure you would feel this is true. The more that um I uncover, unpeel back the me, like finding the me, the more I I actually realize how how I get to have more people in my life who I can have that totally truthful, raw love, almost like a kid. That's what we were doing like before. Like it was just so kid-like. And whenever I get messages from you, I it is like intrinsically I have this happy moment, this like calm moment or whatever that is. Like it's I might happy is such a funny word. Well, I know we're gonna get talking about words and their meanings and things. And and as I've uncovered things, and I would imagine you the same, you realize the kind of friendships, the kind of relatedness you can have with people is quite mind-blowing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah. And it's funny because it like it kind of defies the logic or the the the conversations, the agreements we have in culture about like, you know, that you can only have that kind of love with a couple people, maybe your immediate family or your your spouse or your like your romantic partner or whatever that is for you.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

But like to really get, no, you can experience that with anyone. It's actually a creation.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

And and and the start of that creation is dealing with me. Like, not like not fixing me, because by the way, you know, after 40 years, like the being with me, yeah, the being with the terror of being with yourself.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Oh my gosh. The wonder and the terror and the all the things.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah. And like just starting over here where I am. And when I when I discover self, and the more I discover myself, then the more available I get to be here for other people and express what's just naturally there to express. Yeah. Yeah. Really great. Well, why don't you start and kick us off? Because you know, it's no longer sex coach. And I don't even know that you ever called yourself that, but I just heard that.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

I did. Yeah. No, that's actually no, I did. I I actually started off having my company be Gourmet Sex Life. And I um I really saw that that was the thing I was to talk about. And along the way, I realized, oh my gosh, yes, there is a total taboo around talking about sex, intimacy in an authentic way. We talk about it all the time, like joking, random, Netflix is full of it. Like there's tons of like that happening in the world around conversation, but not authentic conversation, not like, how is it going for you? How's it going for me? Oh my gosh, and all kinds of reasons. So that was that was like for me a journey part of my journey. And as I would share with people, I realized a lot of other, in fact, everyone I spoke to about it, because I was like selective of who I spoke, had a certain relatedness to this not having a space to talk about it for real. So that's what got me started as I went along the way and worked with couples and individuals, and then just kept diving into my own journey. I realized, wow, this is pleasure, not just sexual pleasure. This we as a culture are starved for authentic pleasure. And I make a very big distinction. And that was another thing along the road that I was like, ah, there is a perceived pleasure, there is a perceived pleasure for self. There, but when it's authentic, it actually feeds us. We can actually be satisfied. Imagine that. And that was like literally my biggest thing. I'm not satisfied. I could tell stories and I don't often tell them, and I'm not going to tell them in detail here. But when I was married, my biggest thing was I'm disappointed. And I'm sure the disappointment was on the other side as well. It wasn't a one-sided thing. But um, that was not just a sex thing. And that's when I now I do life pleasure coaching. And a hundred percent we dive into the intimacy part because it's the shortcut to your vulnerable. It's the shortcut to the blocks that really block you. Not everyone can go there right away. And and and so it can be like a I'm talking about career, Amber. Like for you, you and I, there's been a journey around aligning truth around what are we doing in the world? Can we actually be our authentic, fully expressed self with what we do? And that is all about finding what is authentically bringing you pleasure, authentically bringing me pleasure, right? And so some people see it in the area of career or the area of parenting or friendship. And then, and then they realize, oh, right, I've been kind of ignoring this whole body part over here. That happens a lot. And then, and then there's other people who are like ravenous wolves, I call it, who only think sex will solve the problem. And so when they're coupled, that's even more interesting, but we won't, whatever, we can go in there. So yeah, I did start out with that. That was the awareness. So I quit my accounting gig to everyone's shock and awe and whatever judgment. I went and I did sex coaching. And I I never looked back. Uh never looked back. I really, I really was, I've been happy, terrified, but happy along the way. Anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Yeah, I think like we you're pointing to, and it's interesting because I talk about like people pursuing what they want, but I can really see like when you're like truly pursuing what you want, like that is a pleasurable experience, yeah. Versus like, and and the more we align with our pleasure, what we want, especially like for me, when you talk about the journey around my career, it's like there's all of the different ways I could serve people, and then how do I want to be of service? Like, what do I want my service to look like? What is the kind of service that I could give humanity that inspires me? And and and and like, does it matter what other people think I could do? And that uh, you know, I love what you talk about, like the judgment, like I can imagine that when you're like, because we live in other people's listening of us, yeah. So if people listen to you as an accountant or an administrator or something like that, and then all of a sudden you're showing up to the dinner party and you're like, Oh, yeah, I have this new business. Here's my card. I'm a sex coach. And it's like, and it's so true, like, sex is everywhere. We use it to sell, we use it to like keep people away. We like there's so much conversation about sex and around us everywhere, and yet, like real intimate, vulnerable, authentic conversations about sex, like that they don't even happen in intimate relationships between love partners.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Oh, right, you got it. No, it's that's one of the hardest parts. And if it's and I think that's one of the mysteries of the long term, I call them lifers, people who are with someone who matters to them. They might call them their soulmate even. And because they'd never had the the skill set to talk about intimacy authentically, like meaning, hey, the hard stuff, handle the hard stuff. It goes years and years, and that conversation becomes harder and harder, right? And that, I mean, we don't we don't do well as a culture in any conversation that is uncomfortable. I mean, that's what's going on in the world right now. So we struggle with uncomfortable conversations in general as a skill set.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

So that's money, like sex, parenting can be a big one. Uh, career if you are against the grain can be a big one.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Yeah, and I think like yeah, I've been sharing this on as I've been uncovering this for myself on the show around my core belief that love, connection, belonging are fundamental to well-being and success. And like this deep truth that people will kill off what they want, you know, kill off what they love, kill off what you know, like all of that in order to connect and belong, because we're hardwired for that. We can't not like and at the same time, it's like we avoid, I think part of the reason we avoid those uncomfortable conversations is from a fear, like either from shame, and I'd love to talk about the relationship and your you know, your experience between between shame and pleasure, but either because there's something we believe that there's something shameful about us in those areas of life, sex, money, parenting, or wherever there's discomfort, uh, or this fear that if we express ourselves fully and we say what we really want, that that will somehow, in the other person's listening of us, make us unworthy of their acceptance or their connection or their belonging.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Oh, 100%. The shame is totally connected to fear. You're afraid of exposing the thing you're most ashamed of. You're afraid of it's such a risk. It's such a risk. You're risking so much. And I mean, that's why I'm grateful that Brene Brown exists in the world because she's bringing to light some uh she's bringing to light the topic of shame and the fears and the what vulnerability truly is. And she's doing it in a way that is highly logical, which helps us to address this highly illogical emotion. So you're bang on, bang on. Like I uh I just I'll talk about authentic reaching for authentic pleasure will allow you to have pleasure blocks smack you upside the head. And and it's not like oh it's not like we don't see things that are blocking us. We know we could rhyme off 10 things, five, let's say five, because I got one hand here. Okay, so let's say we can rhyme off five things we're trying to work on, five things that are holding us back, five things that are no good. And what's really confusing is we put effort and energy and discipline and hard work to really better ourselves. And those that's awesome. Like the the intention behind that is brilliance, like be your best self, all of this good stuff. The thing is, the energy behind that will run out. It's an exhausting kind of energy, and it's and and it's I'm tying this back to the fear and the risk of uh that that you will kill off, kill off what you want. Like I'm tying this back. So what I'll what I'll what I've played with for years in my own life and with the guinea pigs who've agreed to play with me, and it keeps showing up to be true, is that when you actually go out of the mindset of fixing or improving these five areas, and you say, Okay, yep, great, I'm gonna just hang on to those for a second, but what do I really want? What is authentically what I want? Like what aligns with my core values, aligns with who I really am underneath it all. And my pleasure type is the other piece, right? That's the other piece I've added in. But if you can align and and really, and usually we have to like imagine crazy stuff that's not even possible to even get out of all those blocks, because the shoulds, I can't, I shouldn't, I won't, it'll never happen. We generally can't ask what we want and really answer it because it's we're bombarded with all the what reasons why not. And and and those reasons are so laden with fear. You're afraid you can't get what you want, you're afraid you won't get what you want, you're afraid others won't let you, you're afraid you can't actually do what it takes to have them, right? But if you actually like go after that authentic pleasure, much like you would go after a holiday, you will then like if you're going on a holiday, oh my gosh, I want a beach, Amber. I want to go on a beach, I want to go on a beach, I want to go on a beach. I want people to bring me food and I want to be on a beach. Okay, so like that, so like that, people work so hard to get to their vacation, much harder than they do to generally work and meet a deadline. And the work is with pleasure because you're anticipating the holiday. And so you can actually clean up your desk, get it all ready. You know how much hard we work to keep our desk clean on a holiday because you don't want to come back to the like the crazy. And so that energy of the vacation actually causes you to do something with a different energy, right? And then once you've determined what you want, you're like, oh, I was about to swear. I'll I'll you'll be like, forget that. If someone tells you you shouldn't go on a holiday, you can't go there, you're gonna do that. You're like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, because you've decided, you've seen the vision of the holiday, and nothing is determined. You would quit your job if it came down to it, if that holiday meant that much to you, right? So it's like it's it's changing that mindset, which then allows that fear to not be so strong and powerful. And but that fear is real, that fear of all the things, all the risking, all the things. I just went on a whole rampage right there.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

I'm on the beach with you, by the way. I've got a mojito in my hand. Um I don't even like rum, but I love mojitos. Yeah, like yeah, it's like substance.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

That makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Yeah, but they do, they make mint and lime and rum and goodness. Oh, yeah, let's go. But I've like two things really like stood out in everything that you said. Like, like not only the fear of like the shoulds or all of that stuff that gets in the way, but we also get so caught up in the how. Oh, you're not gonna be able to do that. If we figure out how to have what we want, then we would rather just not want it and we won't even ask for it, versus like, well, I really want this. And like if I choose to believe that everything's possible, or you know, like if I look at other people, they've created that. I may not know how to do it for myself, so I'm just gonna go for it. But like the so like that piece is really huge and like be giving that up this last six months. I'm really getting that I could just reach for my pleasure and reach for what I want. And then, of course, like I love what you said, the pleasure blocks, right? Like Smackup said that they do. They're like you want to like make money, you want to be a pilot and have your own jet. What are people gonna think of you? Right?

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Like and the real, yeah, and that's the real block because you're not working on that. You're working on, oh, am I, or I don't mean you, me, let me say me. I'm working on am I organized enough? Am I committed enough to that, like to get back to people? My scheduling, uh, am I losing enough weight? Like these are the things that I think, am I doing parenting well? But really, the thing that really bothers you and what we really hold you back from that is the thing that smacks you in your face.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah, and it's like often, and I, you know, I'm reading through thinking grow rich with a friend, and like Napoleon's Hill puts that at the top, like that fear of judgment and criticism. Yeah, and again, the tie right back to connection and belonging. Because if people are judging us and criticizing us, then we don't get to connect and belong. And that, like, if people just really got how powerful that is, like, we will live a life that does not satisfy us.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

So if we believe that reaching for our pleasure or what we want is somehow selfish or shameful, and and we have a whole narrative in our culture, at least in North America, and I'm sure it's there in other cultures, it is around you know, being someone who puts yourself first, being someone who pursues your own pleasure, is inherently selfish, that you should be someone that is, you know, is self-sacrificing for the people that, especially for the people that are closest to you. So that was like one thing that like from what you just said. And then the other is like, I am all about the decision lately. Like just really getting like nothing happens in life till you decide. Nothing happens in life till you decide. And and for the most part, we don't decide. We are ambivalent. That's so true. Like, and that is defined, ambivalence is defined as the mental condition of holding opposing views about something at the same time. So it's like, should I stay or should I go? Should I eat this? Should I not eat this? Should I, you know, should I go like, should I change my job, should I not? And like, you know, and and on all of that, there's like you're it's you're just stuck. It's like you're paralyzed by and and most of the time having this conversation with yourself in the head, if you you had this conversation out loud, people would be like, Are you okay? Should we check you into the psychword? Like, versus like, yeah, you know, and and that was me, like back at the beginning of COVID when I made the decision to stop pursuing a path that I was on. It was like, I wasn't even sure that it was the right thing to do, whatever that is. I just was un I made the decision that I was unwilling to keep so soldiering on in my life inside of a

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah. I love that that's what you pulled out, the decision. It's actually a great way to like, if I could tell you how I existed around decision making over my years, that honestly tells the story. It's fascinating. You pulled something out so so just precise. Because I one of the big things that was the complaint in the marriage of my partner then was what do you want? Just tell me what you want. What do you want? That was constantly, and I'd be like, I don't know, like in my head, right? Like, and it was so bad that I literally didn't even know what I wanted to eat. And I love food. Like I love, love food. So you should think that would be easy, but but no, I couldn't, I literally struggled to ask. And and then even that progressed as I went into the world of dating, you know, after we decided to end the marriage, it was many things to, you know, it was a good choice. But um that in that dating realm, asking, you know, you classic, where do you want to go for dinner?

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Now part of me is I like new things. And so as I've gone along the way, I realized I pulled apart that decision-making dilemma, that ambivalence, as you say it. I love that. It's like that talk in your head. Oh my god, have anyone ever heard? I still to this day, if you listen to my head, crazy. Um but that was that was a training. I received that training. Now my upbringing might have been more intense than others around that, just because of you know, religious upbringings and certain religious upbringings, you are very much um guided to love others first, you know, turn the other cheek. And it really depends our upbringing. Different cultures have that training, but even the even our society, and when you were talking about it, Amber, we don't we struggle with that duality of pleasure and the guilt about the pleasure, so much so that we literally have to hear it every time we're on a freaking airplane, you must take care of yourself first or your child will die. Like we have to be told every freaking time on an airplane because we're so defaulted to the other. That's what came to my mind about that.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Oh, yeah. And like, like when you say to people so much, when you say to people, put your oxygen mask on first. Like I remember I heard that for a long time. And as I started my journey, you know, people like, you got to take care of you first. Like, and like even going back to like being 14 years old, and you know, like I'm gonna have to do a disclaimer for the show again, too, because you know, some of this stuff, the what I'm about to say might be a little triggering for people. But literally being 14 years old in my kitchen on the floor, you know, and having a knife to my wrist and the phone rings, and it's my surrogate mom, and and she's like, I don't know why I just felt called to you know, called to call you right now. And I don't think I ever told her what I was about to do when she called. And I I don't know if I would have done it, but that's just where I happened to be when she called. And and she said, you know, Amber, you can't accept love from other people until you love yourself.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

On that call, she said that.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

That's what she said to me at that time.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

And and I remember hearing that in in, you know, it it wasn't until probably a year ago that I actually really discovered that for myself versus like just something someone said to me when I was 14 years old, and I then I heard all over the place. And we hear that all the time. Yeah, but it like until we actually do the work, yeah, you know, thank thank God she did call because she was an interruption, and you know, that there was someone out there that, you know, we have angels. I believe we have angels. You know, I've had a few of them in my life. There's probably more circling. Um, but that like the the work has to start not with you know, and not with fixing ourselves, because that starts from a broken premise.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yes, but anything wrong with us.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

No, there's just no thing wrong. And they just take two seconds, grab an infant child. I don't care what well, you know, make sure the parents are okay with them. Don't just like take someone's baby.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

That's some discernment.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Yeah, but like pick up an infant child and be with them for even a minute. Just look in their eyes and have them be with you. And I promise you, you will get on a wholly new, profound level, that there is nothing wrong with any of us.

unknown 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Because we don't come into the world that way.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Oh my god, that cannot be said enough, Amber. I remember uh you're reminding me of a moment in my kitchen when I was in Brampton on the phone. I was terrified. I started I was clinically diagnosed with depression in my 30s, and so I was really worried about having kids. And I did a lot of work, a lot of a lot of inner work, a lot of work around moms and things like my mom and being a mom. And so I ended up having a uh my first, and I remember calling my mom and really being worried about you know, postpartum depression. So I reached out, and it was in this moment that I realized that a fundamental belief I was given is that I was broken and I needed to be saved in that context. I need to be saved because I came in as a sinner. That that was the context. So sinner, broken, whatever, same thing, right? And I remember in that moment, it's the first time I actually was so clear. And I said to mom, I don't know, remember what she said that had me realize this so crisp and clear. And I'm like, no. Because my my old my first, she she was perfection. There's nothing wrong. This clear, I was crying when I clipped her nail and got a little bit of her skin because I I was like breaking the perfection.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Scratching your new car, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Right, right. So, yes, obsessive first parent. Anyway, but it was in that moment that that that all of a sudden I could no longer believe that anymore. Now I had a lot of behaviors that were on that belief. But I no longer believed I was a sinner or I was a broken human. And then it was years until I really put into that practice, like what it meant to be fully perfection and whole, and that I'm just uncovering all the dust and debris that got on top of my perfection. And and and so, but that I remember that moment and it really did my my daughter, was probably a week old, and that you you you pinned it. You would look at a baby, a newborn, and try to tell me it's not perfect perfect, even someone who is having a physical non-perfection, any baby. I are tell me, argue that.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Yeah, yeah, and then I love how you said the debris, the dust, like we collect stuff, and I'm like um to like those those crabs that call around and they create their house on top of them. I can't remember what they're called right now, but it's like we collect stuff, and it's not even our own stuff. Oh, that when they come in and they bring their stuff, yeah. They build their house on top of them, right? Like from the debris in their environment. Yeah, like it's not our stuff, and and I I so remember, you know, I shared about this on my conversation with Gabriel, like that moment when Kium's doing the landmark forum and they had the big boards up, and it's like all of your concerns about your children. And I got for myself that I I wasn't even I was parenting him through my concerns, and nothing to do with him. Yeah, it had nothing to do with him, and then I'm putting stuff on him because I'm trying to fix my concern about him, and it's like, oh, hold on a second. Like, what would it be like to just like be with my son? Like, like in the living of life, like, yeah, we say things like love yourself first, put your oxygen mask on, you know, that our children are perfect and all of that. We say them, we say them a lot, but what does it actually look to be connecting with someone in relationship with them, living from that belief versus that we play pay lip service to and say it is exactly that.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

It's almost like what you were sharing, like we kill off our our pleasure or what we want. And and I, you know, I realize I want to say that, but I want to I want to distinguish between pleasure and authentic pleasure. I think that's important because I've thought about this a little. Um and I've I've in my journey of coming round to my own faith and soul journey, because I really needed to like sever or like freeze that part of me because there was a lot of wounding or uh debris, a lot of debris on me around that. So in my journey of coming back round to my own soul and like basically bringing that part back online for myself, I've looked at why the heck does religion think pleasure so wrong? What is going on here? And there is some validity, but it is what is pleasure? And so when I looked at what was being like said, don't be warned against what what I looked at, what was being warned against body being bad, pleasure being selfish, pleasure being dirty. We talked about that in our like conversation leading up to this. What the heck? Where's that coming from? These are, at least in my experience, and not everyone's experience is this, the intention was love from this community. So I'm like, wait, something's off here. Where is that coming from? So I looked at it, and what really became clear is there's a distinction of perceived pleasure and an authentic pleasure. And it's important. And I still I I have had so many business coaches, they'll either tell me, yay, go sell sex, or they'll say, Oh, just drop the pleasure word, it'll be more palatable. And I'm like, nope, nope, nope to both. Nope to both. And I'm an advocate for reclaiming the word pleasure. And what what I looked at was there is an empty pleasure. There truly is an empty pleasure. There is a fleeting pleasure, there is a chasing after a pleasure that leads to addiction. There is a chasing after pleasure that is the cutting off, the killing off of self. That is all real. That all actually really does happen, but that's based on a perceived pleasure, something you've not examined, you've not checked in, does it align with me? And that's the thing I'm advocating. A lot. The I to say that going after what is is truly your pleasure because of these possible dangers is a mistake. It's a huge, huge mistake. And it's it's coming from a fear. It's coming from a fear, and it's coming from a history of not being able to dissect it, have a language around it. It's, I mean, we talked a little bit about one of the one of the things I train on is erotic blueprints, which is a languaging. And that I'm dropping a bomb when I say that because the word erotic is like, whoa! So just if you're listening and you're having triggers and your body's like, ba, or you're like salivating, could go both ways. Um, yes, there is a thing called erotic blueprints, and I'm bringing up now, it's a type system. And what's brilliant, well, it's more than that, but what's brilliant and why I decided to spend my money and my time and devote a big chunk of my life to this is because it starts to language something that didn't have language before, which contributes to shame, which contributes to not being able to distinguish. One of the things about landmark is language matters. Language, clarifying language, distinguishing things matters. And so distinguishing between this perceived pleasure that we're chasing after, we're trying to make our own, but it's not satisfying us, versus authentic pleasure, which can completely satisfy us, mind, body, soul, that is what has you experience your life in fullness and actually be your fullest self in the world. That's one of the things I love about you, Amber. You do not settle for being less than your full self. And yeah, holy cow, the debris along the way that you and I have had to clear of our own lives. But we don't settle for anything less than our full true self. We want to experience life that way, and we want to be experienced that way.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Yeah, you know, I I saw this movie once years ago called Dream for an Insomniac, and there was an actress in it called Ioni Skye. I don't know where she went to, but in that movie, she she she said this line, like, Life's too short for anything less than the extraordinary. And that just stuck on me. Because, you know, and I I get like not every single moment in life might necessarily not be extraordinary. In fact, there are some moments in life that are less than extraordinary, and that's okay. But it's like, if I'm not striving for that, right? And and if I'm not striving to be the biggest, best version of myself in the world, and and it's switched because it used to be Amber's got to be the biggest, best version of herself in the world to validate herself and to prove herself because she's fundamentally unworthy and can't be seen to be that. To now, like, no, I get to be the biggest, best version of myself as an access to being able to connect with people on a whole different level and love in a way that I've never gotten to experience love before from this place of wholeness. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah. Oh my God. And can I can I like throw in something?

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

That word striving, and I could see you kind of like trying to bring it to what it is, because I don't actually see you striving anymore. I've seen you strive, I've experienced personally striving. I'm wondering, and I'm I'm in this with you because I the languaging matters. It's like if it's debris, there is a dedication to something, but I don't think it's a striving energy. I'm wondering if it's almost like you know, where you're a treasure hunter, there's a commitment to finding the treasure. There's an energy that is propelling, it's a propelling energy, but it's not a striving, a hard work efforting thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Yeah, no, I like that you said that. Because it's even in the language like, you know, switching the language from like I have to do something, or I, you know, it's like I get to, like it's like an opportunity, yeah. Um to be in that on, you know, and to me, it's an ongoing inquiry.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Yeah, it is an inquiry. I think the biggest uh energy that if it's any energy at all, it's a curiosity, it's a is it's a unfed curiosity about self and love. I'm sorry, well, yes, love. Yes, yes, curiosity about love, but a curiosity of the mystery of life, a curiosity, whatever that unquelled curiosity is that has kids exploring from when they can the minute they're moving, they're physically propelling themselves out of curiosity.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah. Yeah. And like you, I'm gonna have to have you back on the show because there's so much that we can talk about. Oh my lord. Uh but really like the I mean, I too grew up with a lot, you know, I and I don't remember my childhood, probably for some very good reasons that have yet to make themselves known. So we just don't go there because that's a choice I make to not dig it out. Um, but when I was, I'm told by my cousins and my, you know, that I went from being like these little wild children on the coast of the West Coast, our parents were hippies, and you know, we were like roaming the wild. I'm sure we were always safe, but kind of roaming the wild of the west coast of the South Island of New Zealand. And then overnight, like, and this is how it's told to me, overnight my parents and my uncle and my aunt became evangelical Christians. Um, so we went from that to being, and there's pictures of us dressed in our Sunday best, me like two years old, sitting on the steps of the library as our parents converted the town to Christianity. And like, look, I've been in so many different places with my faith, with spirituality, with religion. I, you know, for a long time, most of my life was a big F you to God.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

You know, like if I'm just straight about it, it wasn't even my parents, it was that that idea of God. And, you know, I'm so grateful to have my faith back to be to understand myself to be a spiritual person that I get to because there was something intuitively the whole time there was a there was a a seeking, there was an intuitive like knowing that that I am a spiritual being, but I didn't have access to being able to explore it because I also had this belief like you just you just don't want to to be a real religious person. Like you just don't want, you know, Jesus and the Bible and all of that. So, you know, you if you're not gonna do it the way it's supposed to be done, which is how I was raised, and like I got nothing going on with my parents. I love them. Their faith, their belief is is part of the reason why I am who I am today. And and and they are beautiful, and they're to me now, their faith is beautiful, and I get to have like great work, we don't necessarily believe exactly the same things when it comes to all of this, and that's okay too, but we do get to share our experience of our spirituality and and and and in a way that's really beautiful. Um and they were, you know, I'm so clear, parents just do the best they can with what they know. Like, and when you when you have an existential experience like that, and that was what it was for them. They had an ex existential experience that had them discover God in the way that they did. Like, I've had those experiences when I discovered landwork, when I discovered personal development, you know, like I wanted everyone in the world to join the company. It's why I called you from the center, because it's like I want to have this, right? Like Beth needs this. I don't even know why Beth needs this, but Beth needs this, because it's so great. And when you have that experience, it's so pleasurable and so great and makes such a difference for you. So, like I got, you know, I say that to make it very clear. I have nothing going on with my parents about that. And there were some things about the way I was taught Christianity and I was taught religion. Like, it wasn't taught like this is a possible thing that you could choose to believe. I was taught like this is truth. And I remember at very different times in my journey, I remember being 15 years old and going to my pastor, the church that we were a part of, and asking about the role of woman in the church. And like, why is it the woman are perceived to, you know, and and because I was taught that that is the way things are, the Bible is that living word of God, it's accurate, it's truth. Yeah, there was no freedom for me to deal with, well, hold on a second here. This so-called truth is being used by people to cause disconnection. And and and I had no access. And so I did leave. And it was actually discovering philosophy that started my journey back to spirituality. Because when I discovered, you know, natural religion, the idea that you could look out into nature and see a hand at work, and like in the you know, the yin and yang and all of that, you know, that there was something beyond you know, like physical experience of life that we have, there's something more that allowed me to open myself up again. It still took me a very long time after that. That was probably in my early 20s. I I would say it really wasn't until 2019 when I had that discovery at the seminar leader uh orientation weekend that you know, if you don't get complete with your parents, your whole life is gonna be an F you to them. And then the person was like, or God. And I was like, the minute she said that, Beth, I was like, I believe that.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Oh it's interesting. I feel like that was close to when I started to really know because I so I would love, I want to do this conversation with you because there's so much in it, and I'm relating to so much what you said. And interestingly enough, that moment you're sharing about the F you to parents are God and that well part of my journey of coming together with my love was a realization of, oh my gosh, my soul is not existing here with me. I don't even know what like I so there's those moments where you're there's an aha where that you said, how did you say it? There was always this kind of underlying seeking, perhaps. Is that what you said? Yes, and that's the truth. I mean, and that's where it took me down looking at different mysticisms, the mystery of life, the curiosity of the unknown. It's always been there. And that I I too realized uh, and I you said it wonderfully, the F you to God. I I I it's that I I had to sever something which was a severing of an FU, severing, like, go away, don't come near me. And and then realizing I was doing that, that got to defrost. And then I could actually put for me, one of the biggest pieces of what life pleasure coaching is, is bringing the parts all back into sync, the mind, the body, the soul. Because for so many of us, this the body got disconnected on our behalf out of the wrongness and the shame and the guilt and all the dirty. And then for some of us, the mind got actually disconnected because it was believe, believe against all odds, faith, faith, faith. Like, and then for a lot of us, because that didn't serve us or it wasn't fully aligned, or it, like you said, how it was taught or how it was received caused disconnection. I when you said that, whoa, like that's so true. And so we needed then to find our own rhythm, our own authenticness around the soul part. And so that's what I see authentic pleasure coaching is all about. My own journey is all about bringing into alignment my whole being. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Well, I think that we're gonna leave it there, and we will definitely, you know, one, I just love what you said, and I think that is the journey, right? And then there's nowhere to get to about it. This is the one, like I keep getting this over and over again, Beth, is like there is nowhere to get to. This is just what it is to be a human being and have a human experience. It's so to keep discovering the boundaries of ourself and our beliefs and and expand ourselves. And and and I I love what you said about bringing that alignment to mind, body, and soul. Um, and for me, like when when we can do that, then we get to love, connect, and belong on a whole different, like it's not even like whatever your experience of connection and belonging and love are now, when you can when when your mind, body, and soul are aligned, and it's like I'm tingling.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

That's it. What you're like that, that, that, that. Yeah, like pause for whatever you think it is, pause, go off, do this, come back, and you'll be like, it's like, I don't know, I don't know cars. I'm like comparing it to like this show. Compare Mc McDonald's. Let's loop, close the loop on McDonald's. It's it's it's McDonald's versus five-star gourmet something. Like you don't even know, you only know McDonald's, and yay to McDonald's, whatever. And then it's over here.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Yeah. We're definitely gonna have a conversation with your shame around McDonald's. Right? Can we do that? I know that's why I brought that here. Well, I it might even be fun to have the conversation about all of the different ways that shame just can we do that? Yes, let's do that. We'll book that. All right, Beth. I I love you. You're incredible for anyone listening. Just thank you for being with us in this conversation about pleasure and and going after what you really authentically want. Um, and you know, just keep discovering, keep discovering yourself and expanding. And, you know, there's nothing to fix. Have an amazing week. Thank you for being here today, Beth.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For show info, visit what wouldamberdo.com. And for information about Amber Howard and Associates' offerings and services, visit amberhowdenc.com.