SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to What Would Amber Do with your host, Amber Howard. Each week, Amber dances in conversation with inspirational leaders out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experiences of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly creative life of service to others. And now, here is your host.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Welcome back, everyone. Good morning. Welcome back to What Would Amber Do? It is my honor this morning and really just a pure joy to have on the show Paula Mendanza. Paula is the CEO and founder of Paula Mendanza Coaching and Consulting. Paula transitioned from a 25-year career in the financial services industry to create a platform to support executives and leaders to lead their organizations both profitably and humanely. Paula, just thank you so much for taking time to be with me this morning. Thank you, Amber. I'm super excited. Yeah, and this is Paula's first podcast. So, like, whoa, amazing. I'm just so grateful that it's with me and that you and I get to dance in conversation today about one of the most important things to me and I and I know to you too, which is like people's leadership and and leadership in organizations. And I mean I would love to hear a little bit about like who does that, right? Like, got a kid, got a husband, got a life, you know, jumping off the into the deep end of this journey we like to call being an entrepreneur, you know, um, with even when you've got this, you know, really successful career that you're already doing. What what was the impetus for that move, Paula?

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Wow, that's um it takes me back to, I guess about four years ago, around around this time. Um, I had been doing some really amazing um personal development uh with some of the organizations that you have been doing some work with as well, as you know. And uh I think I spent about a year really discovering myself and um knowing that in the back of my head that I wanted to make a change, but I was super scared, like super, super scared. And uh um I was at I was in a role that was a kind of a bit of a contract role um because I when I transitioned back after my daughter, um, I wanted more flexibility. And so thankfully I had some flexibility, and um, that was gonna change. Um, and so uh it was a really big moment. I was looking at another contract within the same organization and it was with a different group. And um, you know, it was it was just a matter, it was a matter of flexibility that wasn't going to be there for me in the way that I had been used to it. And I just remember it was around it was around this time, like it was around December. And I just I was so disappointed because what came back as an offer uh was looking really good, but it it when I dug a little deeper and asked more questions, the flexibility wasn't gonna be there. So I remember turning husband and I just said, I think I have to leave because it's like I can't imagine how I'm gonna do this and how we're gonna do this with our little ones still in daycare and and that. And uh I actually remember just crying. I I was you know, it was one of those moments, and I'm sure you've had this too, Amber. It's just like there was like no turning back, like there was no more negotiating, there was no more anything. And I remember my husband saying to me, I'm kind of getting emotional thinking about it. I remember him saying to me, it's like we'll figure it out. So I had no clue what the hell I was gonna do. I just knew that it was it was not gonna work the way that I was laid out, and so um, yeah, I left. Um after you know, close to 25 years overall.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Present to a couple things in what you're saying. Like one, like how beautiful is partnership like that, right? That your husband would just, you know, like just I got your back, we got this, you know, that have that kind of support and and like really care. Um just to say to to relieve that kind of um stress or fear or whatever might have been there for you. Um yeah, he's pretty much. I think it's super beautiful. Like that is so beautiful uh that you that you have that, and I'm sure you're that for him as well, Paula. And though, you know, at those moments in life, I think long before we take a plunge or take a leap of faith or you know, step into something new, I think we need there is a knowing that you know that the path that we're on isn't the the one that you know it's no longer a fit or it's no longer aligned. Or um, and then there's all of our fears and our considerations and our what ifs and all of that stuff. And sometimes life, God, the universe, whatever is sourceful for you, kind of hands us a you know, well, here you go. You said you wanted to change and you're not moving quick enough, and you know, there's work for you to do inside of why you were created your purpose, and so here you go. Yeah, and even then you've got a choice, right? You could have taken that contract, lots of people would have, right? You would have found a way to make it work with with your daughter, but you you saw the possibility of something else, and and I I just acknowledge you for for having the courage to kind of lean in, even when you had no idea what it was gonna look like or how it was gonna go, and just be like, no, you know what? We'll just see where this journey takes us.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Yeah, yeah. And it's definitely not my style at all. I'm you know, highly risk averse leading up to that. And so, you know, to think that I didn't think it through um the you know, as to what the next step is, uh just like unheard of for me. Um and I think I I mean it really was, it was really, you know, my husband and his support of that. And that wasn't the first time that happened with him. It was, you know, uh when I had suffered an illness too, and it was the same thing. It was the same. So yeah, it is I uh thank you for the acknowledgement because I'm I'm very blessed. I'm very blessed with my husband and the family we have and his confidence in me.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

So even then, right? So you're at you're at this, you know, sometimes we call them crossroads, you're having this moment where you're like, okay, what had you choose? You know, as as as a coach, I'm I'm curious to know, like because it's not, you know, like despite, I don't know, I I wonder sometimes what people think coaching is, right? Like out there in the populace. And I had this great conversation last night with with a an old client of mine, and and um, you know, he's turned a corner in his life, and uh you know, he acknowledged me last night and he said, you know, you're the only person who when you suggest that I do something, I don't resist you and and not do like and like d say no. And he said, it doesn't mean I always do it, but you're the only person in my life. And I asked him why that was, and he said, you know, up until having you in my life, like people would try and make a difference with me, and I would pull them into my swamp and drown them. That came into the swamp and I couldn't drown you. Wow. And so I I say that to illustrate that like being a coach is not not always easy. I don't know what people's perception of it is. You know, your stand for people has to be bigger than their view of themselves, your um, your commitment to them, and and you're dealing with people when they're bumping up against some things that are, you know, probably have been entrenched ways of being enacting patterns of behavior that have been around for a long time. And I think, um, so I'm curious as to like why coaching, right? What had you say, okay, you know what, I'm gonna leave this career and in, I know you worked a lot in HR and uh organizational change and development. I'm I'm gonna leave this career in the financial sectors in HR, and I'm gonna start coaching and positioning myself to coach and train and develop executives.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Like, yeah, good question. Like I said, I had no clue what I was going to do next. And um, I had been doing some of this personal development um with this, you know, organization that you and I have actually that's where we met. Yes. Um, and um I, you know, I think I've told you this before, but I went to a session. This was, you know, pre-all of this decision, but I went to a session and I saw you there and I saw you share, and your daughter was there with you. And I remember hearing you, and I I picked you out of the crowd because you were um someone who was working in corporate, you had uh, you know, had a good career, you had your daughter there and you were sharing. And, you know, I actually went over to try and talk to you, and you were getting, you were, you were having a we had a quick conversation and then you were on to something else. And I was talking to your daughter um and saying, you know, how is this, how is this helping you guys and all this? So she shared all this beautiful stuff. So that was like really, I was a really like that was a really a moment to remember because I I thought to myself, okay, I don't know this person, but if she can do it, maybe I can do it. And that was like the probably the first inkling when I started to get involved in this personal development work with this organization. And so through that, that I had taken a program um uh in self-expression and and things like that. And uh I had met a coach there who like just out of the blue reached out to me early in the following year after after I'd left and said, Hey, I think you should come back and coach this program. And I'm thinking, is he nuts? Like, I couldn't, he was so good, I couldn't do what he did. And um, I remember calling him and he's like, Well, why not? Like, you know, why not? And I said, Well, I don't know what to do about coaching. And he says, Well, just come. Well, I mean, I didn't know. And so I remember coming and I remember talking to the the leader at the time who you know as well. Um, and I remember, you know, saying to her, I don't know what I wouldn't have know the first thing about what to do to coach. She's like, that's okay. She says, you know, do you care about people? I said, Oh, God, yeah. I love people. I love, I mean, my work actually, I did a bit of work, you know, in HR at some point in my career, but really my work was uh managing relationships. That was the cornerstone of my work uh in financial services. And so he says, She's like, Do you have a heart? Like, do you care about? I'm like, yeah. She's like, okay, that's all you need. And I said, Okay, that's that's kind of crazy, right? And and I, and so she's like, No, come, come, come and check it out. And so I went and I remember saying yes to being a coach in the program. And literally, Amber, like so much doubt, you know, even as I did this training, so much doubt as I started it. I remember them talking to the leader at the time, and I kept saying, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Just Paula, do you care? Do you care about what happens to these people? And she just kept believing that I cared. And I did. And I I swear, I did, I started the program, and within two weeks of the program, I was like in love with these people, these five people that I was responsible for in coaching in the program. And I I I'm like, how did how's that happened? Like in two weeks, like how did like because they were up to these amazing things. And so I ran, I didn't walk, I ran, I ran to find a coaching certification. I said, if I'm gonna do this, especially in the corporate world, I want to do it with something behind me. And and that was the start. And and then it just, you know, just one thing after the other led to more discovery about well, maybe I could do coaching. And maybe it's not about knowing exactly what executives do, having some understanding, but it wasn't about that, it was about helping them discover what may be holding them back, and so it shifted for me the experience going through the training, going through that program really shifted the fact that maybe I could actually do that. And so it was it was pretty powerful. Um, pretty powerful.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

So, first you have shared that story with me about the time we met before I really knew we met. Uh, and I always love hearing it because uh, you know, for a couple of reasons. One, you know, you we just never know the people we're gonna impact, right? And I think that's why share ourselves, why, you know, be out here in life inside of a commitment to be a contribution. Because it's like the ripples of of who we are in the world we'll we'll never know fully. And I also love that story because you know, I I love that I get to share my personal development journey with my children. Like it just is um is such a blessing to me. And so that, you know, and I just love what it says about you, Paula. Then, you know, you're like always researching and trying to figure things out and understand them. And, you know, and so that not only you're trying to talk to me, but then you're talking to Kayla, and it's like, is it really legit? Like, what'd you say? Like, you know, you're the kid, like uh, and you know, what's so great about my children is they feel no way, they'll tell you exactly what it what it is, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah, they'll just be like, yeah, she's great sometimes, and you know, other times she's a real jerk, like you know and is that she didn't say those words, Amber, but it was like, you know what, it's really good sometimes, and hey, we still yell at each other and we still we still fight. And I mean, I and I think that's the reality, that's life. And so, you know, I I had that little one, and you know, she was still very young, and she's you know, only six and a half, so six and three quarters now. And there's still, you know, it's not perfect, it's it's not meant to be perfect, but it's uh I thought, wow, some powerful tools here, like I could do, you know, have personally and professionally. That's like, you know, double whammy for your buck. Like that's pretty amazing, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. As an instructor, I love when I get to train, you know, like I love all of the the content. Well, I love more some content more than others if I'm really honest. Um, but anytime I'm doing training with people where, you know, they can really apply, you know, change management, resilience, like things that they can project management, even business analysis, but where they can apply the apply the skills or the knowledge or the tools and techniques to both their their whole life, like I'm like real in for that because like I just feel like like that that gives people so much more value. And that, you know, the other thing that I got out of your sharing was there is a real sacred relationship between a between a coach, a mentor, and and and the people that trust them. Because typically people are coming to us with the things in their life that they can't move on their own. Because if they could move them on their own or if they were like happy with them, then they wouldn't need us, right? And so I think I think it's that that to me is part of it, like part of why why do this, right? Is like we get to we get to really um hold space. Like there were people who listened to me as a you know, a global leader before I listened to myself that way. Yeah um, and actually one of them is like a self-expression leader. Um and I'll I'll never forget a conversation I had with him one morning. I was like on my way to the airport, I was working there at the time, and we're having a call, a coaching call, and uh I was dragging my heels on meeting some measures in the program. And and he said, you know, I think you're just not present to um like the because I I still had, you know, we we we were removing layers of onions, right? So uh this conversation around being worthy being enough, you know, I had done quite a bit of work on that up until that point in time, but there was still a fair ways to go. Not like there's anywhere to get to about any of it, but he said, I don't think you're present to the impact of your diminished view of yourself on others. And he said, I request you go out and ask the people in your life what it's like for them or what the impact is on them. And I was being a little glib at the time, and I was like, Well, Nathan, you're a person in my life. Like, what's the impact on you? And he got quiet on the phone and he said, You know, Amber, I don't say this um lightly. It was, but what if Nelson Mandela never did what Nelson Mandela did? Like, what if, you know, Martin Luther King never gave that speech? Or you know, he said, I see a leader of their quality and caliber, and I'm waiting for her to show up.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

And I was just like, like, I was outside the building waiting to go into my little four by four cubicle and you know work on my documents or whatever to do that day. And it's kind of looking over my shoulder, like, I don't know who this guy's talking to. Like, you're not talking to me, right? Can't be talking to me. And I was willing, I think this is part of what's so important in a coaching relationship. I was at least willing, even though I didn't see myself that way, to trust that perhaps he saw me better or clearer than I could see myself, and to lean in and just taking actions that were consistent with what my coaches saw for me. And to the point now where I I I I totally get I am a force of transformation for humanity on this planet. Like and I know myself to be that. And and and that I think is to me, you know, like who you get to be for people and who get who people get to be in being in in dialogue and in working with you, Paula, which I think is just such a gift.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

And you know, thank you for that, Amber. And I um it's funny when I look at your journey and I look at where I'm at, I feel like I'm I'm still at the you know, I won't I'm not gonna call myself a new coach anymore. I was doing that for about three years. I think this year I finally gave up that title. But I, you know, I still feel from an from an impact perspective, I'm still figuring it out. I'm still figuring out what it is. Um yeah, but I feel like it's a good place to be. It's a good place to be sitting in the discovery of that right now. And I think that's what prompted me to come here. Um, like I said, I I've never done this before, and I'm just um like I said, I've what I've watched you and I've just I'm like, I don't know how many episodes you're in now into your podcast, like it's crazy, you know, and uh being what number eight in uh the Philippines or something, like it's crazy, right? And so um, you know, part of me is asking myself, like, why not me? Like, why not why you know what's still in my way? So I'm I'm still discovering that, Amber. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

I think that's so great, right? Because I think, and I thank you for your vulnerability around sharing that, Paula, because I think sometimes people feel like they have to have it all figured out to start, right? And no matter where you are, you're a gap for someone. And that's really, you know, I think leadership in general, like coaching, what consulting, like it's about recognizing like where are you a gap for other people, such that you could help guide them through closing that gap for themselves, right? Um and there are there always be people that are gaps for us, and then there are people that in my life, like I'm a gap for them in some areas and they're a gap for me in others, right? And then it's like, well, we get to this is like I was on a call this morning and they said, you know, what's a way of being you would like to take on? And and I said, connected. Might seem strange for people because people probably think I really am. And and there are a lot of ways I've really transformed being a bit of a lone wolf and and kind of on my own, and with this experience of like being someone who gets to create community for others, but not like actually be a part of the community, like an outsider. And and I've I've I've taken ground here, and at the same time, it's a little bit like what if I could live my life, like what if instead of like reaching for support or sharing when I'm bumping up against things as like a way of fixing something when I'm like overwhelmed or I can't deal with life, like what if being interdependent. You know, and connected in community was just every day, all day. And what what does that even look like? Right. So I think I think it's perfect that you don't. I mean, I don't know that we ever have it all figured out. It's like um I think part of it is just learning to really um accept where we are and not make that wrong.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Yeah. And yeah. I think I think too, like I think the beauty is that you know, you think that as a coach, right, you you do have to have it figured. I think that's what stopped me for years. It's like, well, I gotta get my you know stuff in order before I start doing this. And I realized that, like, who has their stuff in order? There's maybe some people have more of their stuff in order than others, but um, you know, that's part of the journey, that's part of showing people. And so I think that really shifted for me over the last could just a couple of years. And um, you know, I do see myself as a gap for some people and the people that I'm coaching now, you know, through some of the organizations. It's like, wow, and it's not because I'm old, it's not because I'm, you know, um, and I have some wisdom or something, but it's it's like it's being vulnerable. And you know, the cool thing is is get to getting to learn from them as well. Like I think people think this is a one-way street. It's like you, oh my gosh, it's it's so far from the truth. Like there's so much learning. I think about everybody I've been working with recently, and I think, you know, even as I depart, them, you know, working together because they've, you know, found other work or whatever. I just am blown away at how much they've contributed to my life in that moment. It's just it's beautiful. Like it it we all learn and we all benefit, um, you know, even in that in that coaching relationship.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

I just love that, you know, reciprocal relationships. Wow. Some it's interesting as I get older myself, it's more like I look to what's the experience of being related that I want to have and and having reciprocal relationships, you know, where there's a real give and take and and and dancing together is definitely one of them.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Um don't get me wrong, I'm I'm not there and doing they're not coaching me necessarily, but through their through their sharing and through the vulnerability that they bring, um, it opens something up for me a lot of the time. And uh it allows me to step into some places that you know maybe I haven't been able to step into, which then empowers them. Like it's just, you know, we are we're humans, we are we're going to have an impact on each other.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Absolutely. And I think, you know, you bring up a good word there. I think the vulnerability, and I think that's what makes coach like a great coach. Part of what makes a great coach is, you know, not just that they have a bunch of tools and skills and stuff like that, but they have a willingness to share things about themselves and their journey with other people that that may not be. And and for you, like what are leaders dealing with in organizations today? Like, what are you what are some of the things that leaders are bumping up against? You know, we've just gone through and we're still in, in many ways, a period of like intense change and disruption for people.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Yeah, oh my gosh, they're going through so much. Um, you know, when I and I think about certain populations, um, I'm looking at, you know, some of the millennials that I'm, you know, that are in my in my uh, you know, in my world that I'm coaching, and they're such amazing individuals because they're you know, they're in some really important positions right now. And yet, yet they're not fulfilled. And so we're we're discovering, helping them discover how they can gain fulfillment at work and even outside of work. So some of those people are like they're so busy and they're so overwhelmed, but it's really important for them to find that fulfillment. So we're exploring what that looks like. And you know, when they start to realize their possibility and their impact in the world and at work, they're just these different people, you know. And I think that's what for me, I think that's and maybe it's because I was there and I was trying to find my place, like, you know, doing good work is one thing. Um, you know, getting recognition is one thing, but it was sort of like, what else? So that's one thing I'm seeing so profoundly. And I I mean, the the pandemic has has accelerated that, I think. If if it was in people's hearts and it was in people's minds and it was in leaders' minds, it was stuffed down a bit because there was no time. But now, as many people have been working from home and asking them themselves the question, like, you know, what am I here for? So I'm just seeing that more and more. And I think because I was there, I'm like, I'm able to spot it and I'm able to speak it, and then and and then they have a they have a way to get into that. So that's one of the things that I'm I'm seeing a lot of.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

You know, I think it's been termed the great resignation coming out of, you know, during COVID. And I've started to see some people start to reframe that. A good friend of mine, Mitch Gray, who was on the show last week, like the great empowerment. I think people are really starting to question um, what does it mean to be successful and happy in life? And and you talk about this, right? You talk about and you coach not just executive, but their teams as well, on the importance of like having a very powerful why and having people be connected into that. And I think, and I'd you know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on, I think it's not just important that all of the individuals who work in an organization understand the why, the vision, why are we here, what are we up to, but that each of those individuals themselves have their own powerful why as to why they're working here. And it's gotta be beyond, like just my personal point of view, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, Paula. It's gotta be beyond getting a paycheck. Because that's just never gonna really engage someone and have them show up as their best self and perform.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah, it's totally true. I mean, uh one of the you know, staples of working um in coaching, you know, one of the big, big tools that you know we have in our toolbox is really helping people discover their values. And I've been really digging into this, uh, really spending a lot of time um, you know, understanding that for myself, defining that for myself, and then helping others discover that. And what's really cool is that through that work, um, you know, they have they they they discover their why their whys, you know, more than one. And then they're looking for alignment. And in some cases, the alignment is there, you know. I I think about some uh people I'm working with, and they've chosen their organization because of the work that that organization's done, the work that the organization represents you know, in in the whole, you know, in the world. And and if they're not in that type of organization, they're leaving. And so, but they're so they're they're they're not leaving like the way I was leaving, kind of kind of like heartbroken, kind of, you know, I don't want to leave kind of thing, but they're leaving with some level of confidence because they know that they're they they need that alignment. Um, and it's happening, like this is where you know, I'm noticing with the with the millennial, like it's not happening when you're you know 40 and 50 only, where I think that's sort of like a trajectory when you think about career. It's happening, you know, in the in people's 30s. It's happening before they walk into an organization. So it's really, really important. Like I don't think I think there's value in doing in in mining your values. Like it doesn't matter what age. Um, so that's a really powerful piece right now that I'm really spending a lot of time with people on.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

It's interesting because I'm I'm reminded of when I when I worked at the airport, I had the the opportunity to be involved in like some employee engagement work as an employee, right? Um and you know, looking at like sorry, what actually engages people. And I think it's changed over time. I mean, I don't think people necessarily were ever engaged, but like hygiene factors like pay and hours and and those kinds of things, um that that's not the stuff that engages people. And I think the younger generation is like really dialed into like if I am not doing work that fulfills me, if I am not satisfied, if I don't have great relationships with my coworkers, if I'm not aligned with the vision and mission of this company, feeling like I'm you know contributing to something that aligns with my values, uh, they're just not gonna stay. And that I think is a huge change in um over perhaps the past where people were willing to stay in organizations regardless of of certain some other conditions uh because they had a fine financial responsibilities or other things. So I think this is something, you know, I think you're spot on, and I think this is something that leaders of organizations really need, you know, and I I I I gotta find a new word because I don't like executives of organizations, because I think everyone leads. Like I really am that one. You know this everyone, everyone leads, right? So I I when we talk about leaders of organizations, I think that's a I'd like to like see a real language shift around that and say, like, yeah, there there are people who are in different roles with different levels of responsibility and accountability. And everyone can lead. It's just about looking at, you know, what's the space in which your leadership is is yeah, you know, you making a difference in the organization.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yeah, and I think that like, you know, so you know, there's I see two things happening. One is choice to leave, and I see choice to stay because there's alignment. And so there is there nobody's, you know, when I really, I mean, I it's really important for me working with somebody that somebody be in choice. I I have experienced far too many people, you know, in my time when I was working there because of this or because of that. Pay, I can't leave now, benefits, I can't leave now, and myself included. That was a lot of my thinking. And then I started to for myself eliminating are those the things are gonna like, are those enough? And they weren't enough, you know. Um, and so I love I'm loving now that I can help people be in choice either way to stay or to go. And when they invest to stay, oh my god, the benefit to themselves, to the organization, it's like they're on fire. They're on fire then. There's no, they're not, they're not in the space of like, I don't know. So I just like you know, I'm not committed to I'm not committed that everyone has to be an entrepreneur. I'm not committed that everyone has to be in corporate. I'm just committed to the fact that you be in choice all the time. That's yeah, that's my commitment to you.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Well, and I and and like bringing that awareness to it because we are, right? Whether we want to whether we want to be responsible for that or not, and we have the awareness, and many people don't even know it. So it's not like a judgment thing. But we are constantly creating our life. Yeah, we make thousands of choices every day about the the actions that we take or don't take, the things that we say or don't say, and all of that is creating our moment-by-moment experience of life, right? So, and I think it's important sometimes, like sometimes it helps to have someone else give us permission.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Because I think sometimes we don't know that we need that. But I I think that's I know from my own experiences that there have been real moments, including coming home from my trip a little bit early to California, where you know, a mutual friend of ours, Nina was just like it you don't need it, but if you need it, like I'm giving you permission to come home early, it's not a failure. I think sometimes like we need that that someone to hold that space for us. So um, yeah. And I and leaders, regardless of their role in the organization, I think it's important that people really like like we care about one another and that we're there and that we create safe spaces for people to to know that they can reach out and get whatever support that they need, not from a place of like they're they've failed at something or but that's just like the the environment that we're creating. And I think that's gonna be more and more important for younger generations because they've grown up with a very different level of awareness. They've grown up with a very different set of values around community and connection.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah. And and and you know, those of us who are a bit older, it's like it's like giving them the permission to be able to think like that, where they haven't been able to do that or scared to do that. But yeah, I mean, I love the fact that you know, we can create as coaches, like we can create like judgment-free zones and and like come being a committed listener. Where do you get that? It's it's it's you know, even good friends. There's like good friends can be good friends, but there's um there's something going on sometimes in people's heads around what someone should do. And I love that we can just just be, you know, you know, creating that non-judgmental space. And that means actually that means good that that requires you like you know, doing the work yourself, because in order to be a clean, like solid listener, you have to you have to do the work yourself as well. So what I one of my coaches said to me, um, I love this, she's like, you know, being an entrepreneur is like one of the most amazing personal development programs you'll ever do. And I'm like, I'm in the discovery of that too. It's like, wow, how much, how many more layers are there to go? Wow.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Yeah. One of the things that I know is really important to you, Paula, is diversity and inclusion. You know, and I wanted to take a moment, kind of at the end of our conversation, to talk about this because you talk about it in a way that I haven't like, you know, lots of people talk about and like I have a value that people that like my commitment is that everyone feels profound love, connection, and belonging. And I think um, you know, diversity, inclusion, like getting like not just tolerating diversity, celebrating it. It's like, oh, your difference like will enhance me and have my life be expanded and bigger. I think that's such an amazing thing. And um I think sometimes diversity inclusion programs are like put in the like maybe not so much now since events over the last year or so, but for a long time it was kind of like employee engagement programs, diversity and inclusion programs, like nice to have, like a good idea. And you um talk about as a woman of color and just based on your experience, that diversity inclusion like makes good business sense. And I'd love to hear your thoughts and have a bit of a conversation with you about why why why does that why does having you know diversity inclusion before front-end organizations make great business sense as well?

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yeah, I mean it's you know, as a business person, you know, human being, business person next, it's like you know, that's what that's what talks, right? Money talks. And so if you're if you're out there and whatever your business is, you're serving our world right now. Well, in Canada, our world is super diverse. So our clients, the clients that you're serving are diverse. You need to have the same kind of mix in the organization so that you can speak to those clients uh in in more than one way, you know, and and appeal like you you can't design something if your view is your view, even me, even me as a woman of color. I can't design something in an organization with just my view, it's not enough. It needs multiple views, it needs neurodivergent views, it needs I mean, I mean, like diversity is so broad, right? Like, so in order for us to be super effective, we need to have individuals like that. I was coaching a woman who is a woman of color who has uh, you know, uh, and the term is disability, but I, you know, we we we know it, it's it's differing abilities, there's abilities. And I don't have that view, but with someone like that, we can like touch a whole other market. So it just like it it's obvious. It's I I you know there's not there's no rocket science in that thinking, it's just it's obvious in order to serve all markets, we have to have that representation inside and at all levels. It cannot just be at the lower levels, it cannot just be at the mid-levels, it needs to be at the leadership levels as well. And so, but you know, being a woman of color, there's like there's a lot stopping us because of cultural upbringing and cultural beliefs and familial beliefs and stuff, and so it needs people that have been able to break through some of that or being able to help someone break through that. And I'm like, like it's like I said to you, I'm still discovering what that is, you know, and I've met wonderful coaches that have allowed that to come out of me so that I can bring that out in other people as well. So yeah, it's just it's super, it seems super simple to me. And uh one of the things, Amber, that I'm that I never realized until I left um the corporate space was I always used to think that my answer or my view was not enough, it was not good enough. Nobody made me feel like that. I actually, it was myself because I've been conditioned to be like, oh, well, they know better, or they're more senior, or they've been doing it longer than I have, or and so I would, you know, and so if I was doing that as somebody who I feel, you know, can communicate, you know, fairly effectively, I'm thinking to myself, how many more, you know, more quieter, more introverts, like how many more people, whether they be people of color or not, are sitting in that space of not bringing forth their ideas and that. So it's we need to, we need to draw, we need to look at the people in the room, in the boardroom, in in our circles, and look at who's not speaking and be very curious as to why, and and and engage them in conversation so that they can their ideas matter because they have a view.

SPEAKER_03 43:29

It matters just because you have a view, and it's equally a view that you know it's an equal view, and it's not it's not lesser than you know who's not speaking and then who's not even present to be able to speak because they don't have a voice at the table, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Yeah, so good. Having that. You I was uh just teaching on project management this week, stakeholder communication and stakeholder and communication management. And and you know, you you see that evolution of the importance of stakeholders and and and bringing everyone to the table and that diversity of use, even in the evolution of something like project management, right? Where stakeholder management it went from like not even a process and like a task. It was like a bullet at one point in time a number of versions ago, to oh, stakeholder management became a process and now it's a whole knowledge area. And now we've evolved it from stakeholder management to we don't call it managing or controlling stakeholders anymore. We're talking about you know monitoring or engaging stakeholders, right? Kind of to me, illustrating the importance of like this elevation in the level of importance we give to connection in work in the work that in the in the workplace and in organizations and in corpor in the corporate world.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Um it's so good, like right, like uh you know, even in team in the team coaching space, having uh you know, the client and even maybe the client's client being a stakeholder. Like who's thinking like that, right? And and and and that's where that's where the the systemic piece of this is really important. Um and so if we're thinking that systemically, we need to have representation, you know, to be able to think that systemically and make those changes, not just not just do fun things to build a team and stuff like that, but like what's going on and where is that where is that impact lying? And it's lying sometimes two levels down, you know, your client and your client's client and and the society that they live in and the world they live in. It's like it can go on and on, right? So um it's it's great. I think I think we're moving in moving in the right direction. So I'm excited about that. As I say all that, I'm excited about it as well.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

It's like it's all in how you frame things, right? I've I've like been really digging in and getting to understand the healthcare sector. And uh, you know, and and there's an extraordinary people, like I'm just moved every day by the people who've dedicated and given their life and continue, people who came out of retirement to to help build the next the future of uh you know health in Ontario, and it just like blows me away. And you know, as someone who's not been in healthcare for a long time, like it's like you come in with an outsider view and you can see a lot of like, oh, well, I don't understand. Like that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why is it like, you know, like that kind of like analytical mind? Um and it can be very easy to be like, oh, well, that like that that that's just a lot of unworkability there, like, or like, oh, I don't know how this is ever gonna get transformed, right? Or you could just be like, wow, this is a massive opportunity, like we have a massive opportunity, always. And I think same thing with organizations and and um like and and sometimes the best thing there is to do is get out of people's way. And that's something that I really discovered as a mom on my trip uh down to California. Like, you know, sometimes the best thing to do is just kind of, you know, not in a way like you're abandoning people, but just, you know, realizing that oftentimes, especially for those of us who are older, looking at the younger generation and how they're engaging in the corporate world and how they're looking to lead and and and and giving space and allowing space for them to bring their creativity to to discovering what leading looks like for a younger generation. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Yeah. Oh, well, thank you so much for being. I feel very honored. I feel very special that you chose to be on this show first. And uh, Paul, I'm just like I you are for me someone who is just so committed to being a contribution to other people and being of service. You're so committed to your family and all of the people in your life. And I just thank you for your stand for executives and leaders and organizations and their teams, um, that that the workplaces really work, and that that people get to not just come to work and perform and have an impact and and all of those things, but they really get to come to work and and feel supported and and have the things that they need and and that they're there by choice.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

And if they're not there by choice, they have the freedom, they know that they have the freedom to be able to choose differently. That that's everything. So I look forward to continuing to watch you on your journey and getting to be part of your journey in whatever ways you know that looks like, and and just thank you for who you are for humanity.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Thank you, Amber. It's been a pleasure. And uh yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out what would Amber Do dot com.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

Really great. For those of you listening, thank you for being with Paula and I for this conversation. And you can find out how to connect with her and and all of that good stuff in the notes for the show. And we will see you next week. Have a great weekend, everyone.